Minority Travelers' Forum
Have any guidebooks been particularly helpful? Are there any places in Europe you'd discourage other minorities from visiting? How do you deal with stares or "special" treatment in areas that rarely see a minority or mixed-race couple? Please share your minority-related European travel tips and anecdotes here.
- Please don't post questions here. Use our Travelers Helpline.
UK,Italy,Sweden
Thank you Lisa,Britt & BA for all your advise.I've heard nothing but good opinions from people who have lived or visited Australia.I actually met a few Aussies who impress me so much that I do some day want to visit that country.They seem like the salt of the earth kind of folk.You know the type,really easy going sort of people.
If living in Europe had not been a long time dream of mine I might consider Australia.My heart is set on Europe and based on what I've learned thus far I'm leaning toward the UK,Italy and Sweden.I hear Sweden is one of the most progressive nations in the EU.Enfact Sweden was the first big western country to come out against Apartied South Africa.
SWeden was far ahead of America and the UK in terms of standing up for justice in this particular case.I appreciate all your advise and if there is anything you can suggest please do so.BTW,I must say our recent election does give me hope for America's social progress.
James
USA 11/11/2008
Funny, in 1990, I had no trouble walking the streets of Budapest(Magyar Republic), Yugoslavia(then one country consisting of Bosnia-Hercegovina, Macedonia, Serbia, Montenegro, Croatia & Slovenia) and I talk to my native-born Bulgarian friend every two weeks--I met him in the then East Berlin.
I am a 'black' man and I prefer Central(nyet voctok Europa) since it is 'off the beaten track'.
You need to stop steretyping
James <email>
Cincinnati, OH USA 11/03/2008
EASTERN EUROPE
i alert all the color people abouT FIRST OF ALL SERBIA AND MONTENEGRO,NEVER EVER THINK AS A COLOR PEOPLE TO GO THERE. I AM AN AFRICAN MALE IN THE EARLY THIRTIES MYSELF AND I HAD A FRIEND FROM BULLGARIA. WE ATTEMPTED TO PASS THE BORDER FROM HUNGARIA THE GUY AT THE BORDER ALMOST SHOT US,ONE THING ABOUT SERBIAN MEN AND WOMEN THEY ARE VERY TALL AND BIG.I THOUGHT WE AFRICAN AMERICAN MEN ARE TALL BUT WHEN I WAS THERE I FELT SHORT AND I AM ABOUT 6'3".SLOVAKIA WAS BAD-A LOT OF SKIN HEADS THERE,BULGARIA AND ROMANIA BAD BUT BETTER.EASTREN EUROPEANS ARE VERY DIFFERENT FROM WESTERNS-THEY DON'T BACK OFF EASY.I WAS AT THE COFFEE SHOP IN SOFIA, BULGARIA AND I WAS LOOKING AT THIS GIRL AND SHE LOOKED BACK TO ME,I ALMOST GOT KILLED 2 MIN LATER I HAD TO RUN. ALBANIA WAS ANOTHER BAD EXPERIENCE-A LOT OF GANGS THERE AND PEOPLE ARE VERY PROTECTING OF THEIR WOMEN. A LOT OF GANGS THERE TOO. i WAS IN PARIS,LONDON,GERMANY AND WAS MUCH BETTER,I TOLD MYSELF NEVER EVER EASTERN EUROPE AGAIN
STRIKER <email>
NEW YORK, NY USA 11/01/2008
Europe by Rail Tourist Report
We are a mixed-race couple in our 40's. I am Mexican Asian and my husband is Caucasian. We had both been to Europe decades ago. The timing of this trip may have been why many Europeans seemed sour. Each country was or was about to be told they would have to fork over billions of taxpayer euros to save themselves from the American led debacle. We traveled to Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, France. Between the two of us, we speak a little French, German and Spanish. I am curious enough to strike up a conversation and I was looking forward to having a few European beers and getting to know our neighbors. In the beginning, I made an energetic effort to do this but by mid-trip I was out of steam. The minute we spoke English to each other, the atmosphere changed and became very uncomfortable. This wasn't at every establishment and we did have a few wonderful conversations but on the whole, we were the wet blankets of the party. As others have noted, you most definitely will get stared at or more often glared at and hear an occasional rude comment. I found this most often in Germany. Bruges is a fantastic place to sightsee but don't expect service. They didn't like us and they're not shy about it. We did run across very friendly and helpful people throughout. The sights are magnificent. People are the same everywhere, I just needed to be reminded up close. My advice is if you go and you look a little different, bring your thick skin and an ipod, the ipod provides a great comfort blanket when you need to zone out. If you're thin skinned, travel with a group, you'll be less of an easy target.
Karen
Bishop, CA USA 10/27/2008
For James
James,
I certainly understand where you are coming from. I have felt that same frustration.
I've only been to Europe once but it seems to me that Europeans who hate tend to save their hatred for the people of color that come from their former colonies. They might be more accepting of Americans. But I wouldn't go to Europe with a romanticized view of the people. They are just people.
If your heart isn't set on Europe, I would suggest that you investigate Canada. It is more European in attitude but still very similar to the U.S. There is some history for us there, remember that the underground railroad terminated in Canada. You will find historically black churches is places like Windsor and Toronto. I find Canada different enough to feel more comfortable but similar enough to feel like home. Just a thought.
Lisa <email>
Landover, MD USA 10/22/2008
Racism in Europe
I lived in England and Spain for several years and I must say that England is the most racially tolerant country I have experienced. However, in many ways racism is more open in Europe than America. I saw African soccer players in Spain and Germany have banannas tossed at them and be subjected to some of the most vile racial slurs I've ever heard. You would never get away with that here in the USA.
Christian <email>
Wilmington, NC USA 10/09/2008
A place to consider
James:
I would have to agree with BA/AUS.
Australia probably would be a good fit for you. Like Nicole was saying though, anywhere in the world that you go, your skin color is going to stay the same, and as a result of that, there will always be the possibility of experiencing some sort of racism, or rude behavior.
With that said, Australia is a good place to go. I went there 2 years ago, and was treated very well. I was in Sydney, Melbourne, and Cairns, and I was also in small little towns like Wagga Wagga, which is about 5 hours from Sydney, and I was treated just fine. No stares, no rude comments, nothing. Australia is very laid back, and it just has a different feel than Europe and the US.
But if living in Australia is an option for you, I would definitely take a lot of time to consider that Australia is pretty much isolated from the rest of the world, and I assume that the majority of your friends, family, and connections are in the States. And even though you want to live outside of the US, I don't think you want to be completely cut off from the US, and in Australia, it feels like you're in a whole different world. Australia is 18 hours ahead of the west coast (which is where I'm from) so it's hard to cordinate phone calls home, and it's a 15-16 hour plane ride home, and thats if you live on the west coast, if not then tack on a few more hours to that.
But its a very nice, modern country, and that's what I liked about it. Europe feels too old and stuck in the dark ages era, as far as architecture, and design. Every time I'm in europe I feel like I've stepped back into the medieval times. I like a more modern, cosmopolitan, chic feel, and Australia has that, and is very progressive.
I find Europeans to be rude and stuck up, and the British people especially tend to be very short with people, and unfriendly. Europeans just seem to have a cold and stoic sort of mentality. Australians are very warm and very friendly, and seem to be more open, and like I said, it's a more modern place than Europe. It's younger than any Europeans country, and doesn't feel so historic, but maybe you're into the old, historic feel.
But if you're looking for progressive, then I would say Australia as a whole is a better fit than probably most Europeans countries. And it would be easier for an ex-pat to be able to make friends, and social connections because the Australians seem to be more welcoming.
Britt
Seattle, Wa USA 09/23/2008
James
In response to your post I really don't think you'll find a better country to live in than Australia. No other country is as welcoming (in my experience) of Black Americans and the associated hip hop culture like Australia.
If you haven't been to Australia you are missing out. In Australia, culture is a melting pot. Australians identify from many backgrounds. We have the first Australians (aborigines), Australian born and then people who come from all the lands abound that make Australia home.
Get yourself over here. Lots of sunshine, beautiful beaches, great people, Sydney and its stunning harbour. Progressive and rational people, looking for change and lots of Obama supporters.
They'll love you trust me, get yourself over to Sydney or Melbourne. Then make your mind up for yourself.
BA
AUS 09/18/2008
Switzerland
Hi all - I'm a black female moving to the area outside of Zurich (Horgen) with my work for a year. I've heard mixed things, not all rosy, but mainly from older sources or the internet. Has anyone been or lived there that can give me your observations? Thank you!
Marie
NY, USA 09/17/2008
James NY, here's some advice
Hi James
Your post is interesting, and as a black woman who has lived overseas, I feel I should offer up my pieces of wisdom for you. But first I must express to you, that if you feel that leaving the States will put you in the midst of all these progressive people who don’t have there own set of ideas about you and your place in the world, then think again. Living overseas presents it’s own set of issues including those of race. Not saying that they can’t be handled but they are present, and you will have to deal with “non-progressive” think of some Europeans.
That being said, I have found my stays in Europe absolutely wonderful. I have had to deal with some bits of racism, but I come from the idea that, it takes all kinds to make the world go around, and that theses types of issues will follow me throughout my life, because no matter where I live my skin color with always be the same.
I lived in Rome for nearly six months, and most recently lived in London for a year and a half (not as a student either). I love my European adventures. But living in Europe requires you to learn how to live differently than what you are accustomed to, and if you are ready to do that then you have taken the first major step. However, before you make such a more, I would advise you to travel to a couple of the countries you are thinking about living in, and see how they fit you. The London is great for some, but others find Paris more fascinating, or better yet Geneva. Every place has it’s own set of pluses and minuses…so take the time to investigate, before you make such a big move. If you don’t mind a little cold, rain, or snow in some cases, then make a trip in Jan or Feb., when prices are cheap (as opposed to in the summer). Not being able to speak the language is not always an issue because most people in Europe can speak English, but if you do decide to move to a non-english speaking country, do take the time to learn the language, it will only benefit you more and help enrich your experience. Good luck to you!
Nicole
Pasadena, CA USA 09/14/2008
Nicole,Pasadena
Hi Nicole
Thank you for responding and let me say the advice offered was very sound.I'm past the stage of wondering if I could fit into a different culture.Have all ready lived for a year out side the states(Brazil) and to be honest my time there worked to confirm my belief that my desire to live abroad is not only real but a good fit for me.
My connection to America has more to do with the family ties I share with those closest to me than anything else.I don't believe the United States is a very moral country.Enfact the USA in my opinion for the last eight years (and in prior years) has been nothing short of a fraud.
I know I'm not the only person who is saying they can't tolerate the idea of the republicans running this country for another 8 years, and to be honest my interest in living abroad goes much deeper than the social conditions here.I have allways wanted to experience living in Europe but timing has been a issue.
I'm one of those people that believe living out side the American culture would be an amazing experience.You mentioned your 18 months in the UK.How much of that time did you spend out side of London?Did you venture into other areas of Great Britain,and were you equally impressed by what you saw in those towns/cities?What most do you miss about the UK and how would you compare the way Brits respected you as a person of color compared to your experience living here in the States?
Having lived in California my self years ago, I'm well aware that its one of, if not the most progressive regions in America.If America as a nation(my opinion) ranks a "5" in terms of being progressive,how would you rank the UK based on your time there?What area of London did you live,and did you spend any time in Brixton?
Thank you for your great advice.
P.S. Its my opinion that life is very short and to be direct, I just don't want to waste time living in America when it doesn't seem to be progressing as quickly as it should in terms of our politics or even when it come to social evolution.
James
NJ USA 09/14/2008
Response to James
James NY,
Wow…politics and social evolution…this is a conversation for the ages, but since this is a site about travel, I will stick to your questions, and leave my political opinions out of this. My reasons for wanting and like yourself, desiring to leave the US were more of a personal evolution. I had always longed to live someplace else, the states, especially California were hitting that last nerve. I had lived in the so. Cal region all my entire life and felt that there was more to life than, celebrities, big cars, and acquiring more debt. I understand when you say that your connection to the states is family related, and even they can drive you to want to leave…(jokes aside). If you have passed the point of “wondering if you can fit”, then go for it!!!
You’re right…living outside the US is a wonderful and enriching experience, and I can say personally that I am better for it. It taught me that I could live outside my comfort zone, it has shown me what should be valued, and I have met people that I would have never met, especially if I would stayed in California isolated in my car in stuck in traffic!!!!!
My experience in Britain was delicious, at times difficult and fascinating. Yes, I have traveled outside of London, where it is another world to me. Done West England for a few weeks, Bristol, Bath, and north to Manchester, and couple of small stops in between; some alone and some with friends, so I can compare traveling alone as well as traveling with others.
I’ve also spent time on the continent, France, Belgium, Switzerland, and Italy as I mentioned before. Each country has it quirks and their own particular beauty, which you can define for yourself.
As far as living in London is concerned, (which is now more home than CA), it is tricky. Visiting is one thing, living there is another. I had visited London three times before I made my move. The one thing I will say in this open blog is, that being black in America is REALLY different than being black in London. London is a very cosmopolitan city, with people from all over the world stuffed in an 11 mile radius, not only do you have other Europeans, trying to assimilate to life in London, but there are Africans, Arabs (Indian as they are referred to there), and a whole host of others trying to do the same. Among Blacks you will find, that every culture stays tightly entrenched amongst themselves, be they Jamaican, Nigerian, Ghanaian, Ethiopian, and so on. This was a surprise to me, and something I really didn’t see until I had moved. I am treading lightly here for a reason, but will I will say is this. Don’t expect to be greeted on the street with open arms, most black people are a bit cautious, and many times they won’t even speak to you. It not until you open your mouth and they here that American accent do people warm up, and do us that to your advantage, especially when you go to Brixton!!! I spent a great deal of time there, as well as other areas of south London. However I lived in east London, which was a trip in and of itself. Don’t get caught up in wanting to live in Brixton. Even though it is cool there are a whole host of areas that are interesting and that have a good mix of people. I used to think that Britain was progressive as far as how they view the world, but my opinion changed once I spent time there. You know what progressive means to you and what you are applying it to. So that is an answer that you have to find for yourself.
I know this response may sound a bit negative, and I don’t mean to be, but I would be doing you an injustice if I weren’t to tell you the truth as I see it. Are there things about living in Europe that offer a bit more to life than the states…to me that answer is yes! But I am looking at the how it enriches me. How excited I get when I can walk into a museum FOR FREE and look at a Michael Angelo or a da Vinci, I get excited when I can immerse myself in another culture after and hour plane ride (which was dirt cheap), how wonderful it is to meet someone from war torn Bosnia, or the Sudan and here about their story of survival and see that persistence and sometimes sheer luck can change a persons life. The food, the art, being able to interact in ways that I never could in the states, that’s what makes living in Europe great for me. Being able to show myself and the world that I can do anything I want, go anywhere in the world and live, despite what the world may think of me as a woman or my skin color. Well, is that is my own personal way of seeing and being progressive.
Sorry this is a bit long…I get excited talking about travel
Nicole
Pasadena, CA USA 09/14/2008
Hello Everyone
I need some advice.Of late, living in the states has left me feeling that there has to be a better country to call home.
Being a African American in the United States in 2008 is kinda like the relationship between a husband and his mother-inlaw.Connected, but not by choice or appreciated like a family member should be.
I even see that lack of respect in the way senator Obama has been demonized by the right wing nut cases.If the republicans win this election that to me will be the last straw.I want to find a country that is more progressive.
So what I'm thinking of doing is following my long time dream of living in Europe.My question to you forum members is which countries would you say are a great place in Europe to live?
I've heard good things about the UK,and the Netherlands.I don't speak any foreign language other than abit of spanish.I have a ITT career so getting a visa shouldn't be a issue.Any advice you could offer on a progressive country in Europe is most welcomed.
Thank you
James
NJ USA 09/12/2008
see the world
I feel compelled to post once again after visiting this site in the past. I am a 30 something black male born and raised in Orange County California and my wife is white, having grown up in Hong Kong, Australia and Brazil.
The first time I left the country with my wife I was very apprehensive. It was an enagagement trip in which I would be surprising my then girlfriend with a ring while in Rome. I did all the usual research as I too became nervous at the prospect of encountering a wall of racism in Italy. That first trip we spent 12 fantastic days travelling throughout Naples, the Amalfi coast and Rome.
I felt like a fool for harboring so much fear.
Recently we just returned from out third trip to Italy this last fall having travelled through Venice, Florence (Tuscany) and my home away from home, Rome.
Once again it was as if I “belonged” among the many non blacks who live and travel through Italy.
The one thing I must implore is that black people “need” to get out and see the world. Too many of us think that there is nothing outside of our own backyard. Either the language barrier, flying or the immersion of a new culture has many of us so afraid to leave that we have become isolated and the rest of the world doesn’t know who we are or what to think of us except for what is seen on TV. We cannot allow ourselves to become so stagnant that creating a dream to travel the world becomes nothing more than a work place day dream. Make it a reality and do it often. There is no excuse not to. If you have little money; save. If you fear a new language, don’t worry because you can get by speaking only English but out of respect you should at least learn a few phrases as it goes a long way in facilitating relationship bonds with the local citizens. There is nothing more gratifying for me than to be on a plane bound for Europe and glowing with anticipation for what adventure awaits for me.
I would like to challenge all minorities to go out and travel but blacks especially. Get out and see the world. Be seen and heard. There are so many beautiful cultures and people out there that want to learn us. Xenophobia is a problem in a lot of countries but unless they are exposed to us it will be harder for people to accept tolerance. As for Spain, we tend to forget that under Franco’s rule, Spaniards were so oppressed that their voices were silenced, their individuality stripped and the rest of the world (people and cultures) became nonexistent. It’s only been three plus decades since the fall Franco but a New Spain has emerged. A lot of people are exercising freedoms they never had or in large part restored. Spain is extremely nationalistic but they arent racist. They are growing up all over again and it takes time to adjust to a world that was taken from them for so long.
Let’s all try to experience what is rightfully ours, this gift called earth and explore her every corner and immerse ourselves in her beautiful cultures.
john <email>
Denver, Colora USA 08/27/2008
Last Year's visit to Europe
It was a very quiet July on here, so here goes! I am an African-American woman who visited the Netherlands, Paris, Germany, and Belgium last year. I really had no problems at all, overall. In fact, I loved it so much, I am going back to The Netherlands this coming September.
Yes, the stares are sometimes there, especially at a lot of touristy-areas. I don't want to make an overall generalization, but I would see the least amount of people of color at the museums, tourist spots, and off-the-beaten-path type places. Shopping, no matter where, we seemed to represent quite well.
In Paris, I traveled with a Dutch tour group and was oblivious to being "profiled" as we approached a building where we were going to (privately) view the Eiffel Tower from it's observation deck. I guess the guards (building personnel), as I found out later, thought I had "accidently" wandered into this group of white people and they met me near the entrance with unwelcoming and stern faces, motioning me to get away from the group. The Dutch tour guide came rushing to my defense, speaking to them in French. When I turned to my Dutch friend and spoke to him in English (about a beautiful view I'd spotted, purposely ignoring the incident), their faces turned red and they were very apologetic as I went through the turnstile. I just ignored them.
It's really no different than here in America. Sometimes people's expectations of who you are, where you belong, and what you're all about is based on the color of your skin...it takes special people to take a moment to look outside of what's considered the "norm," and see that this great big world belongs to everyone. This same thing occured, similarily, in a Paris museum (the one with the Unicorn tapestries). The guard followed me throughout the gift store, unabashedly, as I shopped. When I paid for my items, he was staring closely enough as I brought out my Bank of America debit card. The cashier acknoweleged that I was American. His demeanor completely changed and he rolled out the red carpet for me in his actions, with smiles and friendly gestures, as we were leaving. But it was too late, he'd already shown his true colors. Oh, well. I just hope the other patrons weren't robbing them blind.
Amsterdam...so cool. No incidents at all. I never felt like I wasn't welcomed anywhere (even if I was completely ignored, which was just perfect). Visiting the Rijksmuseum? wonderful! Refreshing!
KR <email>
AR USA 08/02/2008
ESPANA!
Black people of America; you must get yourself to Europe.
I read comments from people about wanting to know how much armour they will need to face Europe. You will need some but FAR less than you would in the United States.
Three things to be aware of.
1. Dress well. This is not b.c dressing casually = looking poor but b.c it guarantees much better service. Especially in big cities like Paris, London, Madrid, Lisbon. I used to be upset about having to "compromise" and dress up just so I can be treated decently but it is a small sacrifice to avoid people's ignorance. By the way, my Paris-born White European friends do exactly the same thing. They too will get better service if they look nice. So it is not even a racial issue.
2. Learn to distinguish between RACISM and RARISM. You may get a ton of looks. NOT because people are racist but because you are such a rare sight where they are. Or b/c you don't look like the other people who share your skin color (ie African Americans vs. Africans in Europe). I was in Salamanca Spain studying abroad and I almost cut my trip short b.c I could not deal with all the stares. I had never felt so worthless and disrespected. Finally I went to church and prayed to God to give me the strength to deal with these racist ignorant Spaniards. I came out and this woman behind me at a candy shop says, "Oh, I saw you at the bakery yesterday. You are so tall and beautiful. You know, we never see people who look like you so we all notice you." I couldn't believe it. This old woman had come up to say what the whole town was thinking. After that, I changed my outlook. In my mind I became Salamanca's celebrity and I relished the attention. But it was hilarious how all the stares just a few hours before had made me want to burn off my skin, and with one comment, And as an anecdote, I wound up dating the head of the University's Law Club who is one of the most respected students so we basked in each other's celebrity :). So, realise that yes, there is certainly racism, but there is also a lot of 'Wow, I don't think I've ever seen a Black person in real life.'
3. Notice who are the minorities of your society. When you are Black in the US, you are so accustomed to thinking that you and perhaps Hispanics are the most persecuted in your society. Get to Europe and all of a sudden, you will realise that people of ALL colors are the minorities. Filipinos are looked down upon. Poles and Romanians are looked down upon. Gypsies are looked down upon. Moroccans are looked down upon. Ignorance and intolerance can be leveled at any one. Even White people. Realising that other people are also mistreated will actually make you feel less pessimistic about your race. And hopefully more empathetic.
I can't recall specific racist incidents. They occurred but none that would make me swear off a place altogether. I do have to give Barcelona a special shout out for being the place that most made me feel like I belonged and was welcomed. Such a happy, carefree locale.
But please travel and let me know how my tips helped you!
Well-traveled
New York, NY USA 08/02/2008
To Katie:
There is a Graffiti wall section entitled "Accessible Europe" which deals with your concerns. It would be more appropriate to put your post there.
Art
UK 06/26/2008
Disability and Europe Travel
I am surprised that nobody has mentioned their experience as a disabled person traveling in Europe. We have to deal with not only accessibility issues but also "attitude" issues. I am interested in what other disabled people have to say about the way they were treated in Europe. Attitudes about the disabled need to improve everywhere, but some places are more backwards/progressive than others. For instance, in Italy I experienced nonstop staring and sneering, taxi drivers who refused to take me, shop owners who spied on me as I shopped, and a some people who wouldn't even talk to me even though I speak Italian. My experience in Ireland and the UK was much, much better. Very accessible, open-minded, willing to talk to me and help me out, and so on. I've heard people say that the further south and east you go in Europe, the attitudes about the disabled are still very medieval. It gets better the further north you go. I'd like to hear what other people have to say.
Katie
KY USA 06/24/2008
To the questions about Barcelona
I've been all over Spain. I'm an African American Female. And I absolutely love Spain I loved it so much I seriously considered moving there. I was just in Barcelona this past summer and had one of the best times in my life. I found the lifestyle to be very laid back. I found the people to be very warm and friendly towards me. However this isn't to say everyone black person's experience will be like mine or that I won't one day have a negative experience. But I think all experiences good or bad only broaden your horizons.
Meg <email>
NYC, NY USA 06/16/2008
Paris, London
I lived for a little over 6 months in Paris, and about 4 months in London.
I am multi-racial (mixed Asian and Caucasian) and had very mixed experiences. Just to preface, I feel that since I was living there, with daily interactions with people, and not just traveling for a week or two I probably experienced more than someone who is just going on a group tour.
Of the two cities, I found London closest to NYC. Mixed, loud, lots of multi-racial people. I had one incident, where my white friends got into a bar and the bouncer refused to let me in and gave me a hard time. One person I met said that Americans were all blond-haired and blue-eyed and fair, even though I told him I was American and I am none of those things.
Just as a general frame, there are some people in Europe whose vision of America is a country full of tall corn-fed blue-eyed blondes, and nationality and ethnicity are conflated. So for example, what you look like (Asian) means they assume that is where you come from, even if you've lived in suburban Pennsylvania your whole life. It's surprising and shocking at times but that's one thing to expect.
Paris, sadly many incidents more than London. Host families repeatedly getting into heated discussions that Africans, immigrants are ruining their country. Lots of racist talk; Asians are savages, but "I'm not like them." (Yeah, right.) Backhanded comments about the Philippines, Muslims. People talking down to me, a cashier at H&M saying in my face in French that she was surprised that a poor hick like me could even afford all the clothes I was buying (she assumed I was a Filipino immigrant who couldn't understand French); called "a maid" by one person and ordered to pick up some cigarettes someone had dropped. Friends who were Asian were repeatedly referred to as Chinese no matter their background, and being teased by adults and children. African-American friend described Italy as "the worst" in terms of racist comments/behavior, host family made disparaging comments about Africans to her, and in one instance host parent got physical with her, said if she called the police, who do you think they would believe? Filipino woman working as maid telling me that her employers don't treat her well, and that the French weren't nice to her. Asian classmate getting stared at in Russia.
Many immigrants of non-Caucasian background from francophone Africa, China, Iraq etc. I found were extremely helpful, kind to and friendly with me. They often inquired how I was doing and seemed particularly interested and concerned in how the French were treating me. One man from Iraq told me that "Les francais sont un peu raciste."
Overall, Europe is beautiful; by all means go! But be aware that the political correctness that we so take for granted in the US doesn't really exist in Europe. There are many wonderful open minded people as well who couldn't give a damn about where you came from and will only shrug and say "cool", but the frequency of those willing to vocalize their unsavory beliefs about race to one's face is higher than I have experienced in the US. Reaction wise, it hurts the most the first time you experience it, but usually, literally walking away from the incident will give you time to cool off and/or avoid a physical altercation.
USA 06/06/2008
Barcelona
I've traveled within the western Europe extensively, from as little as a week and sometimes as long as 2-3 months at a time, for business and pleasure. Two countries which are mentioned by business people and travelers, who are not white, more frequently for overt racism are UK (outside London) and Spain. My own experience is/was similar, long before I heard of these comments, and this traveled spanned over the last 30 years. Having said that, I also believe that being an American provides us better tools to spot and handle this bigotry. Unfortunately, most of the people feel that, in these countries, its not an embarrassing or shameful act condemned by majority, and that's where lies the problem.
I hope it will not stop you from traveling and seeing the world, because of the few ignorants.
Johny
Charleston, SC USA 06/01/2008
Barcelona
Hi All,
I have been glancing through this forum trying to gauge the treatment of AAs in Barcelona. I am a 21 year old male going to Barca for about a month to study international business. From what I have read, many have said that it is a tolerant place but more have said that it was racist. I watch soccer alot and am familiar with the treatment of african players but through it all I still wanted to go.
I just wanted to get some feedback of some recent travelers to see some different perspectives on what to expect and how to make the trip enjoyable.
Ryan <email>
FL USA 05/31/2008
Japanese-American Male in Europe
I am a Japanese-American guy who's been living in Europe for the last 8 years.
There are different ways to look at Europe.
In general, with the exception of the United Kingdom, French, German, and many Eastern European women have been very open-minded in terms of dating and having relationships with me.
I believe in terms of dating, Europe is a superior place for East Asian males who were raised in the United States or Canada.
Compared to American women, European women just seem amazingly more open-minded, interested in East Asian culture, and attracted to East Asian men.
On the other hand, I would say economic opportunities are far more limited for non-indigenous groups here in Europe than in the United States or Canada.
As for general treatment on a day to day basis, I'd say it's about the same. You get your share of intolerant racists who taunt or yell (ESPECIALLY when they see you holding hands with a local European woman).
Daigo
Paris, IDF France 05/22/2008
Italy
I traveled to Italy (mainly Rome, Venice, Bologna, and Florence) and it was absolutely a fabulous experience. The Italians were very warm and friendly, and at no time did I ever feel mistreated or experienced any hint of racism. The Italian men were especially receptive to me and my friends, and surprisingly more attentive and generous to me (part African-American) than my white companions. I would definitely go back again. The country is beautiful, the cites are amazing and the people very friendly. Even if you do not speak Italian (although I would suggest learning several common phrases as a courtesy) most Europeans speak several languages fluently, which includes English, French and Spanish, so communication should not be an issue.
World Traveler
Phoenix, AZ USA 05/10/2008
Portugal
Rick, your Portugal guide book made my 13 days in Europe's bargin country fantastic. The walks in Lisbon, the quiet beach in Salema, tasting Port wine in Porto, and day trips to Coimbra and Evora; your hotel recommendation and itinerary suggestions were for me, on point!! I will not go to Europe without one of your guidebooks.
I am African American Male and had no problems in Portugal; well only one -- i didn't get over my addiction to sardines, seafood and vinho verde; "Happy Travels" and "You don't know there until you go there"--Zora Neal Hurston. Planning a 16 day trip to Scandinavia this summer, any advice that I won't find in Rick Steves book?
Shermanator <email>
Somewhere on the road, USA 04/24/2008
Racism Abroad - Country by Country Reports
A travel website called Acarnos.com has an entire section devoted to racism against travelers. It lists a number of websites where you can read country reports about the kind of welcome minorities can expect, as well as lots of other links:
http://www.acarnos.com/index_travel_guide/racism_abroad.htm
I hope this helps.
Rod
La Jolla, CA USA 04/23/2008
Customs Agents
Hi, this forum has been quite helpful to me when I did my first European trip last year, so I wanted to leave a note about my experience with Customs agents. I don't know if it was because I was black or American (or both) but I found the customs agents in London and Stockholm to be quite rude. The Stockholm airport was the worst. I was grilled and grilled and grilled until finally I wised up and said that I was on my way to meet my boyfriend's family. The agent asked for his name. I said his first name. "Well, that doesn't sound Swedish." So then I said his last name. My boyfriend has a stereotypically Swedish last name. The agent then says, "That sounds Swedish. You can go through." Sigh.
I've since learned that mentioning that I'm traveling with my Swedish boyfriend is the best way to expedite the questioning, whether it's the UK or Sweden.
I'm not sure why this should be the case. Does he give me some sort of odd European "street cred"? It makes me wonder how long I'd be there if I was traveling on my own...
That said, the rest of the trip (Cardiff, Ystradgynlais, London, Cambridge, Stockholm) was great, and the people were very friendly. So my advice: don't let customs agents color your impression of what the rest of the trip will be like. They are a poor and unfortunate representation of the country.
Rayna
Santa Barbara, CA USA 04/14/2008
To Chris
Thanks Chris for verifying my own preliminary research on Italy and Cambodia. Those are my dream locations.
thanks again
Dreamy Traveler
USA 03/28/2008
Germanic Countries
I spent some time in Liechtenstein and Zurich last summer. Once I crossed from the French speaking Switzerland to the German speaking part, I felt like saying "I'm not in Kansas anymore." No one was outright mean, but people were less than friendly. Perhaps it was because I couldn't speak any German. I've never felt uncomfortable in France or Switzerland. Liechtenstein was not bad. But, I did feel like the odd person out. There were very few black people there. But, I still had a good time. I had friends who were outright treated shamefully in other parts of Switzerland. I would probably not go back to a German speaking country by myself because I didn't like how I felt.
Deena
NYC, NY USA 03/23/2008
Vienna
JM, I have to agree with you. I traveled to Vienna almost two years ago & I can truly say that I regretted staying in Austria as long as I did. It was the second time I had traveled to Austria. I could feel the tension in the air & I had a weird moment on a train from Salzburg to Munich when a plain-clothed "polizei" randomly asked to see my passport. I made sure I held on to it and gave him a dirty look. I think he got the hint and when he saw I was American, he walked away.
Everyone has different experiences, but Vienna & the whole of Austria, I will probably never travel to again.
K
Los Angeles, CA USA 03/05/2008
European Travels -- Then and Now
I am African-American, born and raised, and I haven't been to Europe since I studied at Oxford University in the mid 1990s, which was my first trip to Europe. I was based in Oxford, and I took side trips to London, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Paris, Athens, and the Greek Isles while I was there.
I experienced some racism/prejudice while I was in Oxford (I saw skinheads smash a store window of a minority business, an Indian or Pakistani clerk told me his experience in Oxford and that the town was "backwards," and I was stared at as I walked down the street in the residential neighborhoods off-campus with my American university's name very prominently displayed on my sweatshirt). British and French customs were quite rude to me when I tried to enter the country on a side trip to Paris (reentry to Britain). They didn't believe that I was in law school at the time. French policemen in Paris stared at me as I strolled around La Sorbonne. African and Arab Parisians wanted to talk to me and share their experiences living in Paris. Interesting. Greece was ok; I had no problems in Athens or on the islands. Overall, my European experience was eye-opening for me; I was glad to return to the USA, and I became appreciative of my lifestyle here, although America is far from perfect.
I'm planning on going to Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, and Italy this summer on business and leisure. I'm hoping for a realistic, but better experience.
HarlemGlobetrotter <email>
Harlem, NY USA 02/29/2008
Vienna
Noel, I have never been to Liverpool or Geneva but I was in Vienna with my afro-panamanian husband (I am white). There is only one other place in the world where we were treated worse and that was Boston. In Vienna people were downright nasty. We were ignored in restaurants, a ticket agent in the train station refused to help me. The Austrian passport control agent gave my husband a very hard time(we took the train from Munich). I believe he was trying to start an argument with him but my husband was cool and didn't take the bait. We couldn't wait to get out of there and we were worried that Salzburg and Innsbruck would be the same but the people there were much nicer and more helpful than in Vienna.
Note that we were not first time travelers, we've traveled all over the states, Central American and Europe. We are always polite and learn key phrases in the different languages and try very hard to avoid that "ugly american" sterotype. Vienna was just not a nice place.
JM
New York, NY USA 02/27/2008
. I think we're more likely to interpret bad behavior from non Americans as being racist because of our history with white Americans. Often their impatience is just because we're American and we're clueless about other people's cultures and practices. We go to other countries and act arrogant. In other words they know far more about us than we know about them.
USA 02/25/2008
Geneva, Vienna, Liverpool - Opinions plz
I'm Afro-Canadian and I've taken a couple of solo trips to Europe. Experiences:
* France - Went to Paris twice. b4 and after the riots. Most times people assumed I was French but I was still treated okay.
* Netherlands - Would go back every year. Friendly people, great cities and that's without prostitutes and drugs!
* Belgium - People were VERY frosty, but I suspect it had nothing to do with race.
* England - London: Wow! People were FAR from frosty. They were so friendly. Have to return. Manchester: Never again; I think I was "profiled" at the airport, which is a first.
Two Afro-Canadians I know went to Salvador in Brazil in August 2007 and they had the worst racist incident at a restaurant there. [Salvador is very Afro-Brazilian, BTW.] The waitress thought they were African and wouldn't seat them. When they spoke to her in English, she brought menus outside to them, but still blocked them when they tried to enter the restaurant. They eventually left, but while they were "sorting it out" with her, several white people arrived and were seated.
Planning trips to Liverpool, Geneva and Vienna this year. Opinions on these destinations would be very helpful. Thx.
Noel Lee
Toronto, 02/24/2008
Enjoy Paris!
Hi Brenda
I'm a black American living in London for more than 5yrs. I visit Paris about once a month for two weeks at a time, sometimes up to three months as I'm dating a Parisian there. I have never had Africans treat me badly while I've been there. In fact, I've found many to be warm and very curious.
I'm from NYC and I think if you're from an urban/big city you know all about pushy or rude or impersonal kinds of attitudes and the French in general are no different than any other big city dwellers. If you're talking about white French people, that's another story.
I've never had anything like Oprah's racist Hermes moment happen. But obviously, the French do have grave problems around ethnicity and religion.
1. Try to learn some of the language before you get there. You will definitely have an easier time and it's just good practice to greet people in their own language before making requests. Many people will warm up as a result. 2. Try to visit some of the areas outside tourist traps. A good place to see lots of black people is northern Paris, at the St Ouen open air market. Some say it's the largest fleamarket in Europe. Don't know if it's true but there are loads of Africans from all over the continent there, selling there wares. Around the perimeter, it's like Harlem on steroids. On the inside it's all pristine antique Eurocentric expensive items. 3. Try to blend in as much as you can. There is a negative sentiment about Americans in general that has nothing to do with being black. I think we're more likely to interpret bad behavior from non Americans as being racist because of our history with white Americans. Often their impatience is just because we're American and we're clueless about other people's cultures and practices. We go to other countries and act arrogant. In other words they know far more about us than we know about them.
I hope this is helpful. By the way, Sacre Coeur area isn't as rough as others might lead you to believe. You just have to be a smart traveler.
Enjoy Paris!
New Yorker in London
London, USA 02/23/2008
Don't Let Subtle Indifference in Paris Ruin Your Trip
Hi Brenda in DC:
Just would like to comment on your solo Paris trip. First, congratulations! I made my solo trip to Paris in September 2005 (went again in 2006), just before the "race" riot broke out. Yes there is in subtle racism in Paris, particularly of the African/Parisians against Black Americans and particularly around the non-tourist areas in Paris.
Of note, I want to point out that this is my opinion and my experiences and should not be taken as the general rule. My travels only took me to certain parts of Paris, and I was only there for 7 days at a time so that does not make me an expert on racism in Paris, France nor does it suggest that Paris, as a whole, is racist.
Anyhoo, the first time I rented an apartment in the 6th district I noticed that there were virtually no blacks in this area; especially at night. I would like to point out that this area, along with the 3rd through the 7th is a high tourist area.
The first time I went, I came across a restaurant and the dog of the owner for no reason started barking at me in attack mode (thank God he was chained in). He actually lunged at me! This was after about 50 white people walked by (racism?…don’t know why was I singled out and yes I was the only black person around).
Secondly, I initially rented an apartment through a well connected website. After faxing my picture ID and credit card information. The apartment was no longer available (this after the real estate agent hounded me up to the minute about getting my information in and assuring me that the apartment was available). Racism…don’t know?
Thirdly, a few African/Parisians gave us African-American sisters that were traveling together (and one Hispanic) a few dirty looks. One wouldn’t let us sit by her comfortably on the metro (she had her legs spread so far apart, I though she was about to give birth).
Overall, I saw that most all the African/Parisians and other minorities were mostly concentrated in the 18th district (around Moulin Rouge and Sacre Coeur). Just like everywhere there are places you would not be caught dead in at night and this was the area, I personally didn’t feel comfortable there and high-tailed it back to my apartment in the 6th. Most tour guides will tell you to be careful in this area.
Overall, I did like it in Paris (going back for the third time in the fall 2008). The majority of the shop keepers were very friendly and I took their indifference to me to be contributed to the fact that I spoke little or no French and their impatience wore thin. (I learned the next time I went though)
So take it for what it’s worth. I have no problem with Parisians or African/Parisians and I will certainly go back again, just a little bit wiser and speaking a hella lot better French than before. I owe them that!
See ya and good luck!
dkritype4u <email>
Houston, Texas USA 02/11/2008
Paris
I'm taking my second solo vacation to Europe this spring. Last year it was Florence, and this time it is Paris. I'm a little apprehensive concerning Paris and its 'race' issues. I'm African American and heard that we are spared the harsher treatment dealt to Africans there. Can anyone attest to that statement?
editors note: All questions must be posted to Travelers Helpline
Brenda <email>
Washington, DC USA 01/30/2008
Eastern Europe
I'm an African-American male who mostly travels alone, but sometimes friends come with me. I've been to England, France, Germany, Italy, etc. and want to see some of Central/Eastern Europe. I wanted to know if anyone had any experiences they could share.
I'll probably stick to major cities. I had no problems in Prague, so I'm pretty sure I can handle Budapest. I'd like to hear about Slovakia, Slovenia and Croatia. If I survive all those and feel really adventurous I might want to see Belgrade. Any other places you can recommend would help as well. Thanks.
Brad
Charlotte, NC USA 01/14/2008
Italy
Italy was my favorite country during my 3 month journey through Europe. If you have any problems it probably won't be because of your ethnicity. I found the Italians very friendly
Thomas
Washington, DC USA 01/11/2008
To Dreamy Traveler
Italy and Cambodia will be perfectly fine. No worries. Italy is one of the best countries for blacks to visit as I rarely hear any complaints from any blacks that have been there, and I myself have not had problems there. SE Asian people are extremely friendly. You might get looks as I did, but they are 100% curiosity looks and not the type of KKK stare downs you might get in Arkansas. Go to Italy and Cambodia and have a blast, you will for sure!
Chris
L.A., CA USA 01/02/2008
re: travelling abroad
I just had a good chuckle at what NYC said, "Spainsh people concider themselves Europeans and not hispanic or latin."
Well of course Spaniards are Europeans, what did you think they were? Mexicans? For the record Latin is not a "race" its a language spoken by the Romans, and its used to describe other languages that descend from Latin. (Spanish being one of them). The term "Latin" America was first coined by the French in the 19th century to justify their own colonial ambitions in South America again to imply French and Spanish relation to the Latin language (Roman). The term "Hispanic" atleast in the Americas is a generic term used to describe lands and cultures that were once part of the Spanish empire.
Well I'm done with the history lesson, just had to get that out. I just find it funny that when Spanish is mentioned most Americans automatically think Mexican. LOL Think outside the box Americans "European" is not just Germanic speaking Scandinavians!
John <email>
Torrance, Ca USA 01/01/2008
TRAVELING ABROAD
I must say I have found all of the comments here interesting. Here is my 2 cents worth.
Europe as a whole is changing and as a black person you will find good and bad out there. Having lived in the UK for the past 2 years and having access to world news I was shocked to hear of the racism that still occurs in parts of German especially during the world cup last year. The German police/ organizers of the event were issuing maps to non-whites pointing out a safety zone for them (I can say I saw one with my own eyes.)
I did not have any problems in Italy I had a wonderful time. You do get a few admiring glances but it becomes flatering after a while.
Spain falls into 2 camps south of spain very friendly, north of spain a bit more of a challenge. Spainsh people concider themselves Europeans and not hispanic or latin. once you get that you will be fine. Try out your spanish no matter how silly you sound it breaks the ice Gracias goes a long way.
The UK is up for grabs at the moment. What you will experience is more anti-american sentement due to the political and economical climate at the moment so my fellow ethnic groups don't think it's you ALL americans are getting the cold shoulder at the moment.
Paris is a love it or hate it place. I found not problems there. If you speak a bit slower in English you should get by okay. You may find people a bit abrupt and short but that's paris.
Ireland was a mixed bag for me. Dublin awesome I felt right at home. traveling further south and west you will get racism big time. Store keepers will ignore you or follow you around, you get really dirty looks on the street as well.
South american is fine as long as you get used to things taking a little longer. Buenos Aires was not the best in customer service when I went but otherwise fine they do party hard. Rio again very comfortable but crime is high stay on the main street dress down very little jewelery.
Middle east travel was a great experience for me as well. The people are very friendly and are eager you have a good time when visiting as hospitality is a huge part of their culture. Contrary to popular opinion I did not have to cover my head when there but conservative dress is very appreciated.
As for asia have not been yet.
To sum it up, travel have fun enjoy your experiences good and bad. Remember you are not in American and things are different so be prepared. travel with the things you know you cannot do without (tylenol, your favorite gum, soap, cold medicine, shower caps very important) those little creature comforts that are important to you. Or be willing to try and accept the local remedies. I cannot tell you how grateful I was when one night a girl in the group was traveling with drank tooo much and the bar tender gave her his local remedy and within 15 minutes she was 50% better.
Life is to short not to live it. ENJOY THE ROADS LESS TRAVELLED.
Nyc USA 12/02/2007
To Oneita and Zack
To Oneita and Zack
Thanks for the comments. As a Black female, I have a yearning to travel, but hold very grave concerns about traveling while Black. I have experienced enough racism in America to last me a lifetime, thus it is quite fatiguing having to put on another set of amour for groups that are not American and will treat you badly because of race.
I do plan on traveling eventually, but I am not going to assume that there is a Utopia overseas, especially after dealing with America’s myopic racism. Still I find your comments uplifting and look forward to seeing Italy and Cambodia’s art and architecture up close.
Dreamy traveler
Miami, FL USA 11/21/2007
friendly poland
i'm asian-american and i just got back from the czech republic and poland. the polish are the friendliest and most helpful people i've ever encountered. this despite my being a minority... i've been to switzerland, spain, the netherlands and belgium -- and the polish are at the top of my list!
L
tx USA 11/11/2007
Germany
I am an Asian-American woman in my 20s, and have spent significant amounts of time in various parts of Germany, and speak the language very well. I am currently living in Berlin. Until this trip I would characterize my experiences with race/ethnicity/gender and most Germans by a sometimes uncomfortable curiosity with many (false) assumptions, but nothing dangerous or even remarkable enough to dampen my enjoyment of the country. I would say it is similar to white American comments, though Germans tend to me more direct with their questions and non-white people are more of a novelty, so they tend to see Asian Americans more like immigrants and tourists from Asia rather than from the US.
So, as I said, until this trip. I want to make clear that I think most Germans are tolerant, friendly, and open to visitors from other cultures. If you are thinking a vacation or short visit, I definitely recommend it. I don't think that the follow comments apply to tourists. However, living here has been a little different. While on the subway with another Asian woman, speaking in German, a homeless man stopped his music playing to tell us (in English?) to go home, they didn't want us in Germany. Returning from a soccer game, I was with a white Am. woman and we received harassing calls from teenage boys in fake Asian and English sounding voices. I also often overhear racially inclined comments from people on the street who don't realize I understand them. And, it is impossible for me to ignore the constant reports of physical attacks on minorities or the presence of barricades and police surrounding anything connected with Jews. In Berlin, this has definitely given me an eerie sense of discomfort. I think that in a strange way, non-German speaking tourists have the luxury of tuning out most of the petty harassment and appearing a little hapless as all tourists do, but German-speaking minorities who appear too comfortable here seem to raise the specter of wanting to stay and that is when I have encountered a change in disposition. I would also echo earlier comments that this is much more likely to occur with Asian and Muslim appearing people, who have a larger residential population in Germany.
Berlin Ami
Berlin, USA 10/20/2007
African-Americans traveling in Italy...
My husband and I just got back from a wonderful 16 day vacation in Italy. We had a beautiful and awakening experience while vacationing there. We stayed in a little town in Tuscany call Montecatini, where the people were exteremly well dressed and very friendly.
We also visited the towns of Siena, Lucca and my favorite, San Gimignano. We purchased some olive oil and nuts in Vinci from an older woman who owned a little roadside stand. She spoke very little English, but was very nice and sweet to us . She even gave us samples of some of the products that she was selling.
From there we traveled to Pisa, Assisi and Rome and never had a problem with any of the people there. We also travelled to the Southern part of Italy to Meta, Naples and Sorrento and the people once again were very kind and helpful to us.
We adventured out on our own in Sorrento and hung out with locals and the people were always repectful,very warm and friendly.
We even made friends with a few Italian people who promised to e-mail us so that we could stay in touch.
African-Americans, please save your money and travel the world. Most of us are afraid to go outside our commnunity and don't ever considered leaving the country that enslaved us for hundreds of years.
I am encouraging African-Americans to please educate yourself by seeing the world. You will find that you are loved and treated with more respect abroad then you are treated in your own backyard.
Oneita and Zack
Los Angeles, CA USA 10/14/2007
To Michelle
I wouldn't put Scandinavia in the same list as the others, it's a modern, liberal part of the West and very egalitarian, especially Sweden. Granted there has been a little tension in the last few years integrating immigrants but for a person of colour I still think it's relatively one of the best places to be a minority.
As far as Greece, I went there as a child with my parents in the 80s (we are of Indian descent) and I remember people being very friendly, but can't say much about it now.
Then as far as the Eastern European countries you mention: I have been to Prague and found it to be not very different to most West European capitals, they have had visitors coming for such a long time they have become quite cosmopolitan and don't even blink at seeing a person of colour. Don't know about outside the city though. Being of Indian background I was worried too about the "gipsy" tag, but nobody ever mistook me for one, I guess it's in the way you dress, walk, etc. And even if people were gipsies, nobody seemed to be overtly harassing them, at most they were avoiding them.
Haven't been to Hungary, but a friend of mine based out there was flying his (black) girlfriend over from London to Budapest every other weekend, and she loved it out there. He told me there was no problem.
Don't know about Poland, but that seems to be the country I hear most about with regards to parochial or xenophobic attitudes. But of course the major cities with lots of tourist activity are probably fine: Krakow, Warsaw, etc.
I get the impression that while the old Communist countries haven't quite caught up to the West in terms of open-mindedness (not just in terms of race, but for example sexual orientation, women's equality, etc), the people in Central European countries - the Czech Republic, Hungary, Bulgaria - were a lot friendlier than the people in Eastern European countries (Poland, Latvia, Estonia). But that's just my take on it.
Art
London, UK 08/24/2007
Response to Iceland Post
I hope I am not too late. I am an African-American female (often mistaken for Latino or Indian because of my coloring). I traveled to Iceland in 2004 and I had a wonderful time. I was with my mom and step-father, who are both white, so I am unsure if that played a role. In any event, the folks there were very friendly, especially in Reykjavik and on the open land (which there is a lot of). I even saw another very young bi-racial girl living in the area. That being said, the only place I experienced some pretty frightening major problems was in the Pingvellir, where we went to see the original Althing (the first parliament, which is quite beautiful since you see where two plates on the earth collide). In any event, we went to a fancy restaurant in the area. Most folks were dressed up but quite a few were dressed down, as they had been hiking all day as we had. I was shocked and humiliated when the older, gentlemanly-looking host sat us all down and blatantly gave my mom, stepfather and sister a menu and completely ignored me. If they were out of menus, it's typically customary to give them to the older folks. I was in my mid-twenties and my sister (who is also caucasian) was only 13 at the time). However, I am not sure if this was a product of that environment, the man himself or something else. I made a stink and the waitress, who was very nice, gave me a menu and went to speak with the guy. I still completely don't understand what happened.
However, I will say this: that particular event was one experience, and I do not believe in basing my trip on just one. Overall, people in Iceland were incredibly warm, though shy (not as social as in other parts). We stayed in small towns and in Reykjavik, and most folks were incredibly nice.
Also, the landscape is beautiful! You will never see earth like that again (Iceland is one of the newest land masses on earth)...and folks there are open. They let you walk on their land and enjoy the beauty. Also, there are very few restricted areas, so you can walk on glaciers! Amazing!
Atiyana
New York, NY USA 08/23/2007
Eastern Europe?
Coworkers and I have been discussing European travel (none of them have been
yet, but I've gone 'cross the pond 4 times), and they want to know which countries are the least 'racist' as far as African Americans. I look biracial, Hispanic to some, ? to others
and even Arabic to many, but am black. I had no issues in Austria, Germany, Italy, France, England, Spain, Monaco, Liechtenstein, Holland, Belgium, or Switzerland. I am thinking of visiting Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic, and perhaps Greece or Scandinavia sometime
soon and am wondering (uneasily) if I should go or return to my fave cities. I know a lot of people hate Gypsies in most of Europe, and am afraid I may be mistaken for one. Please send replies directly to my email, I welcome any and all suggestions.
Michelle Karman <email>
Charlotte, NC USA 08/23/2007
European reception of people of color
I'm white and my husband is African American, and we've done a lot of traveling together. It seems there are two separate issues: whether you'll feel like the "only one," and how people will react to you. These don't always coincide the way one might expect, and in fact can be a trade-off.
It's true that if your racial/ethnic group is a fairly small/nonexistent part of the local population, people may be more open, have less of a history of prejudice, not be competing for jobs, etc. So while you may feel the discomfort of standing out, folks may actually be friendlier. My husband and I traveled in Wales where black people are pretty thin on the ground (except in parts of Cardiff), and people were incredibly friendly. On the other hand, we've traveled in the Caribbean where black is the norm, and people weren't always friendly (though they mostly were). My husband had the impression that black people in the tourism industry seemed to "get" having to wait on me, but why should they have to wait on him? We have no way of knowing what they were really thinking, of course, but there was a certain chill in the air.
Having said that, we've really had no trouble traveling throughout Europe, the Caribbean, even Zimbabwe and South Africa. Mixed couples should be alert and reasonably cautious, just as you would at home. But go, be polite, be beautiful Americans and people will love you.
Mechtilde
Seattle, WA USA 08/22/2007
Follow-up story
Lots of people have mentioned the "staring" problem, and how you don't always know why people are looking at you.
My husband (black) and I (white) were in Rome once, and he noticed a guy staring intently at me. Hubby assumed the man had a thing against mixed couples, till he figured out the guy was actually staring at my breasts.
You just never know.
Mechtilde
Seattle, WA USA 08/22/2007
Malta
Hello,
I'm planning a trip to Malta in November. I'm an African-American male. Recently I borrowed a number of travel guides from my local library. One in particular adresses the issue of color and race. And after reading that section it has gotten me slightly worried. Nonetheless I'm still going. Has anyone been to Malta and could they please share the experience?
brooklyn artist <email>
brooklyn, ny USA 08/14/2007
Travel With Kids
This is my first post. I wanted to share my recent experiences in Europe. I took my 2 daughters (7 & 15)and a friend of my teenage daughter to Europe for 3 and 1/2 weeks. We visited London, Geneva, Venice, Nice, Barcelona and Paris.
Rick's guide books were a great help. We were traveling solo. We had an excellent adventure. I think the most important things are: have the right attitude, do lots of research, expect the unexpected and try to speak the local language. I must repeat...try to speak the local language (in a pinch-point to the phrase after you mangle it).
We traveled by train from country to country and had fun sleeping on the night trains. I did make a mistake and booked a 6 person couchette (instead of our T3 and T4). You should have seen our faces when 2 teenage guys joined us one evening. My other point is teenagers like to sleep late. Plan accordingly.
We did get some stares but it was rare. On a train-if there were 30 people in a car we might notice one person staring for the entire day. Ssome days, we took 2 or 3 trains or subways. We would either look back, look back and smile, or ignore. There may have been more but we did not notice. We were enjoying ourselves too much. We attracted some interest. We had quite a few pleasant encounters with locals and tourists from other places.
The other point. If you are traveling by train. Pack light!!!!!
We all have kick-behind muscles in our arms. My daughter has named her biceps "Thunder" and "Buff". And we packed pretty light. One carry on per kid. I had the next size up because mommy had the clothes line, medicine, alarm clock, snacks, first aid kit, travel books/ripped pages, etc.
Hope you have a great trip too.
C Cummin <email>
Fayetteville, Ga USA 08/12/2007
Belgrade and Montenegro
I was told that I should not travel to Montenegro and Belgrade, Yugoslavia because of the heavy racism that I would encounter. I am a black female (age 32, but look 22). I would be traveling alone for personal reasons or on a tour group (can anyone suggest a tour company that goes to that country?), as I'm that adventurous. Has anyone traveled to these places? If so, what were your experiences?
<email>
Sacramento, CA USA 08/04/2007
Sicily
RE: QUESTION: Can any blacks tell me what it is like in Sicily? I have heard some things that didn't sound great, but that region of Italy looks so beautiful that I would love to experience it. Is it worth it? If you've been there, please let me know.
My best friend and I (we're both Black Americans) traveled to Palermo a couple of years ago. The experience was memorable, the island is breathtaking, the food and wine are to die for. Sicily has a number of Arab, Indian, and African immigrants. While my friend and I were stared at, victims of a botched seduction by a restauranteur and his waiter, followed by two lascivious pursuers in a museum, and called nera, bella and such... we didn't have any negative experiences at all.
Sicilians tend to be wary at first, but were very helpful when asked for directions and such. The wariness doesn't come from being racist at all, I don't think. The Sicilians weren't sure where we were from (many guessed Brasil, French Caribbean, and England first) and would ask us "da dove?" When we answered "Stati Uniti" we weren't met with anything but kindness and more questions about the U.S.
I'd be willing to wager that not too many Black people from the United States visit Sicily. More should though. ;-)
Coffey <email>
Hartford, CT USA 07/28/2007
Sicily
My husband and I, both African American, were in Palermo in June 2007. There is absolutely nothing to be concerned with. There is a small 'darker skinned' presence (no matter the nationality or race) in Palermo. We saw many merchants and families conducting everyday life. We even saw a beauty shop catering to black hair. Not one stare - Not one person who treated us "differently". Go and enjoy!
Veronica Harris <email>
Chesapeake, VA USA 07/28/2007
Reply to Christmas in Florence
I was in Italy during the Christmas holidays last year and I had a great time. Christmas Eve you will find that many restaurants will close early, some will claim they will be open, but when you get there, they are not open. So call first.
Christmas Day in Rome wasn't bad at all. By lunchtime lots of restaurants were open, people were out walking the streets. Expect Florence to be pricey and crowded. But if you are there for an extra day, book a cooking/wine tour with Accidental Tourist. That was a great experience. Dress warm, Florence will be cold and wet. Stay long enough for the after Christmas sales and splurge on a designer something.
Lisa <email>
Washington, DC USA 07/20/2007
Spain is not horrible!
I spent six weeks in Madrid in 2005 and a week in Paris. I also took a day trip to Toledo.
I went my brother and stayed with a host family. We are African-American. I can say that the stares made me uncomfortable ( I felt self-conscious) when I first when went to Madrid but after a while I stopped noticing. Sometimes I would stare right back at people and they would continue to stare. I knew it wasn't racism, they were just curious. While I guess there were some racist people there, I basically ignored them or I never experienced overt racism. Overall, I never really experienced problems in Madrid. Everyone that I interacted with seemed pleasant enough or indifferent enough.
I didn't really dress like an American. In the USA my outfits are considered "weird" because of my choice of colors, the fact that I don't wear shorts, sneakers (except for exercising), or t-shirts but it turns out I dress like a normal European, lol. I never used a fanny pack, I bought a purse when I was in Spain. I never felt threatened by anyone either. But then again, I really didn't roam the streets at night.
Once my brother and I were looking at a map, and and a friendly woman helped us find our destination. Another time when I was leaving for the airport, a woman told me to switch seats with her on the metro so I could hold my luggage and sit comfortably.
Once I tried to cross the street where there wasn't a crosswalk (stupid I know) and a woman held me back and told me to follow her because I almost got hit by a truck (not smart).
I didn't experience any problems on my day trip in Toledo. People looked at me because I was different not because I was black and that's if they looked at me at all.
Paris was great! I never had any problems there, however I mainly stayed in the tourist areas where they are used to seeing all kinds of people.
I'm going to spend a year in Barcelona and while I'm a little nervous from what I've heard, I also know that racism is everywhere. I live in the South, I've heard hurtful comments and experienced hostility. It won't be anything new, or at least it shouldn't be.
I'm also going to dress with a little more American flair just in case.
Feel free to contact me!
Girl from ATL <email>
Atlanta, GA USA 07/12/2007
travel to iceland
hi everyone, i'm a black canadian female who will be traveling by myself to iceland in late august. has anyone else been to iceland and if so, what was your experience?
Simone
Toronto, Canada 07/06/2007
Re. Christmas
re: Julie
Often, tourist attractions do have shorter hours and a few may be closed in the winter, but you don't have the crowding and waits that you do at peak season. Also, many things are often cheaper(excluding just before christmas) in an off season. Also, you do get the "real europe" as it's mostly just the locals and not hordes of tourists.
USA 07/03/2007
Need feed back tentative Itinerary for Western Europe
My friend and I are planning to travel to Europe in May of 2008. We are single, African American female looking to spend 17 days traveling around Western Europe. We have at tentative Itinerary and we would like get some feed back and suggest on this Itinerary and place to go when we are in these cities.
We plan to start in
London, England (we plan to take the euro train to Paris)
Paris (we plan to fly to Barcelona from Paris)
Barcelona (we plan to fly from Barcelona to Rome)
Rome
Switzerland
Amsterdam
Ending back in London
Blkladyte <email>
Boston , MA USA 07/03/2007
Christmas in Florence, Italy
Christmas in Florence
Hello, I've posted this message in another forum but I did not get any responses so I'm trying my luck at posting here in the minority forum.
I am a black female thinking of spending Christmas in Florence. I've heard that Christmas in Florence could be quite boring with lots of museum closings, overpriced food at restaurants that elect to stay open. Any thoughts from fellow travelers? It is still early I can change to another country but I need to get a good idea of what to expect.
Julie <email>
NJ USA 06/25/2007
My travels
I have had interesting experiences in my travels. I am african american mixed with puerto rican and a bit of chinese. I was rather impressed by the locals. They took in my fabuolous appearance and commented on my delectible cravate. Happy travels!
Jerry Tinaka
Montevideo, USA 06/20/2007
Greece Travels
I have traveled on a Rick Steves Tour to Greece and had a wonderful time. No one treated me bad at all, the people were really friendly. I noticed the people who received the most stares were the blondes in the group because you rarely see blondes in Greece. I am black and filipino with brownish complexion and believe me I do stand out. Go and enjoy Greece. They are so laid back.
Monique
Germany 06/11/2007
Germany Info
I lived in Germany for two years. When I first arrived, I received the stares that has already been mentioned, but that was more curiosity about me being American than anything else. There are A LOT of people of color in Germany. There are a number of military bases, resulting in interracial marriages. As for the dress. Germans, dress very European. When they walk around downtown or are out and about they dress as if they really have someplace important to go. I didn't see too much skin displayed unless it was at the club. But they do wear jeans (with heels, not sneakers) and they dress very chic. Skinheads are usually closer to the Berlin area (or they used to be.)Overall Germany is a beautiful, reserved, conservative and genuine country. Enjoy it!
Shelly
USA 06/08/2007
Help. Need Germany INFO
No one is saying much of Germany. I'm a hispanic woman, but I look African American. My boyfriend is white German. I will be traveling with him to Germany soon for the first time. I heard there are not barely anyone that looks like me. So I'm worried about racism. Can some one tell me what areas of Germany would not be good for me, and which areas would be okay, also why? Has anyone experienced racism in Germany? I heard there are still skinhead gangs around that mess with tourist. Is this true? Also how do women dress there? I always wear pants. I never wear short skirts or shorts. But my thing is jeans. Do German women wear jeans alot there? Anyways my big concern is my tops. I have a tendency of wearing tops that show off my breast, sometimes not on purpose because of their size. Do tops like that offend Germans? Please, someone give me some advice on German. Mostly around Christmas time because that's when I'll be going. Thank You.
<email>
USA 06/03/2007
Portugal
I am a African American woman who will be traveling to Portugal at the end of June. I would like to know if anyone has any tips, experiences or advice that they would like to share.
Raynette
Nashville, MI USA 05/31/2007
Portugal
I traveled to Portugal and Spain in 1999. I visited Nazare, Lisbon, Obidos, Tavira, Alcobaca for the Portugal part of the trip. I stayed in the hotels recommended in Rick's book. I had a wonderful time and found the Portugese to be extremely friendly and receptive. We were asked to stay at a lot of residences when we arrived in the various bus stations and just talked to a ton of people wherever we went. I don't equate people staring with racism, they may not have seen a Black American before. I did not have a single negative experience so go and enjoy!
HTH
Melodie <email>
Chicago, IL USA 05/31/2007
Mixed Womans travel experiences
I am a mixed person, black and white. I have traveled all through Europe independently without any serious problems. I have been followed throughout stores by security in southern Spain and found that people stared at me constantly while traveling through Eastern Europe. I could have interpreted this as racist, but I think many people stared at me because they were not used to seeing someone who looked so different from them.
As a person of color you may come across situations where you feel uncomfortable.Don't let fear rule your life and keep you from experiencing wonderful sights and the opportunity to connect with extraordinary people from around the world.
Honestly,I faced more discrimination/racism within my own country than I have ever dealt with abroad. There are always going to be those few jerks no matter where you go...learn to ignore them and don't waste your energy worrying about what they think of you.
K <email>
CA USA 05/30/2007
madrid for indian
hello. my heritage is indian. i was born in england and live in london. i am due to travel to madrid in august. would like to know of indians' experience of madrid. thanks.
shamsur
london, UK 05/28/2007
Holland
I'm sorry I actually laughed after reading Noel's post. Holland is probably about as non-problematic as you can get as far as social attitudes. It's one of the most tolerant countries in the world.
Chris
L.A., CA USA 05/27/2007
To Noel
The Netherlands has one of the highest minority populations in Europe. I think something like 10-15% of the population is non ethnic Dutch. I think the percentage is even higher in Amsterdam. Go, you will be fine. It's one of the places I feel instantly at home when I get off the plane from London (and they are so fluent in english, sometimes you forget its a second language for them.
They can be a little bit cliquey towards non-dutch speakers, but that is applied regardless of race. I had white french friends who worked there and felt a little bit excluded. On the hand if you're a dutch person of ethnic origin, ie you speak the language - no problem! you're one of them. Anyway, I don't think you would even notice this unless you were going to be spending a considerable of time there, for example working or studying.
Art
London, UK 05/25/2007
Scared of Amsterdam?
Thanks for all the help with my inquiry. However, my girlfriends bailed on our vacation & in a wild fit I booked a flight to Amsterdam on SKYSCANNER.COM (realized later that I'd confused the pound with the Euro!). I'll be traveling on my own for the 1st time & I'm so scared that I'm almost on the verge of using my cancellation insurance. My mother thinks I'll be lynched, but I don't think it will be a bad experience or I wouldn't have booked...I guess. Did I mention that I mixed up the Euro & the pound?
I went to Paris last year & it was a breeze. There were lots of dark faces and locals were surprised at my horrible (read: nonexistent) French!
As to Amsterdam, I'm still freaking out, but I intend to stay in a nice hostel, be friendly, as usual, & hopefully will have a great time. I want to get over this fear of traveling to countries with no/little diversity & being attacked/"frozen out" because of my skin color. I don't think it happens very often, but I sometimes worry about being that "statistic". I think travel is a good cure/reality check for this.
I'm convinced. Amen. :-D
Noel Lee
Toronto, Canada 05/24/2007
Traveling To Italia
My husband and I are planning a trip to Italy this October. I decided to join a pen pal website, so that I could meet some new friends before we go.I met a very nice lady who is going to take me shopping and show me around the city of Rome. Just an ideal for those who are planning on traveling and would like make some new friends.. Always, of course, use your common sense when traveling in a strange country.
Oneita
Los Angeles, CA USA 05/23/2007
Ireland and Portugal
I've been to both Portugal and Ireland.
Portugal was great,it's a wonderful friendly country you will see many people of color especially in the larger cities. Ireland was fine, I even went north to Belfast. Just go and have a good time. Someone asked about Sicily, I found Southern Italians to be a little rude, but then I observed that they were brusque to their own people. My sister also went there, but she goes first-class all the way and found the people to be charming and accomodating.
Deb <email>
Long Island, NY USA 05/22/2007
Ireland
hi Noel. I can't comment on the Algarve or Barcelona. All I would say is that as well as being part of a minority you are also AMERICANS, The day an American doesn't receive a warm welcome in Ireland ( either north or south ) will be the day the Queen gives up Buckingham Palace and takes a job as a pole dancer in a strip joint.
Al Bishop
Nottingham, UK 05/18/2007
europe
One rule don't go to barcelona if you don't know spanish, because they don't they only speak their language and they call themselves kathalonias so they have an own language similiar to spanish and if you are not one of them your a nobody
But the girls where nice tough friendly, kind, at least myexpirience as a boy (I don't know if they're like that with outside girls)
leave your girlfriends at home if you visit barca
the R <email>
Antwerp, belguim 05/18/2007
Sicily?
Can any blacks tell me what it is like in Sicily? I have heard some things that didn't sound great, but that region of Italy looks so beautiful that I would love to experience it. Is it worth it? If you've been there, please let me know.
C
USA 05/17/2007
Barcelona, Algarve, Ireland
My girlfriends and I plan to go to Spain (Barcelona), Portugal (Algarve) or Ireland in July 2007. We are all minorities ("black", Indian & half Asian) so we are wondering if there are any cities we should avoid. I read in an older post on this board that Northern Ireland & Spain aren't so great for minorities. Only a month and a half to go, so HELP! :-D
Noel Lee
Toronto, ON Canada 05/17/2007
Black in a Small French Town
I am planning my first trip abroad this summer to a small town in southeastern France. Although I'm completely excited, I have a nagging worry that I might encounter a few *problems* with the locals. As a black woman, should I have any particular concerns or worries?
Dani
CA USA 05/09/2007
South America travels
I spent near 3 months in Argentina about 10 years ago.You will not have any racial problems there.Like in many European countries Argentines do like to people watch, so you can expect to have lots of stares.Don't be alarmed,its only because they are curious about you.Enfact being one of a handful of Black Americans in Argentina will win you over tons of new friends and invitation to dinner or drinks as long as you are the friendly type.Happen to me so often during my time there.Not many Black people living in Argentina,I encountered just a few African American tourist who I befriended, and met a few African American basketball players who were cut by nba teams and then picked up by professional ball clubs in Buenos Aires.So you will stand out but in a Rock Star type way.I had a few people who thought I was Mike Tyson,even though we look nothing alike.The people and the cities of Buenos Aires,Mendoza and Cordaba were amazing.Prepare your self to have the experience of your life.Argentines are very warm and romantic people.I can honesty say to be a African American is a HUGH plus in Argentina.Your biggest safety concern will be the same in any large city which is crime.Use common sense when flashing money or bling.There are economic problems in South America.There is no middle class to speak of,only those who have a great deal and those that have very little.Don't be shocked if you have such a great time that moving to Argentina becomes an idea!
Jay
Sanford, Fl USA 05/02/2007
Black Paris Resource
A worthwhile online resource for African Americans in Paris or anyone interested in discovering Paris from a multicultural perspective is Cafe de la Soul * Your Black Paris Portal
http://cafedelasoul.com
Robin
USA 05/02/2007
South America
Hi everyone, I have travelled around central and north america and various pacific islands and I can't think of any major race issues I have been faced with. I am mixed black and white and on most of my travels I have been able to blend in with the locals.
I'm nervous now because I'm going to Chile and Argentina and I haven't heard very positive feedback from darker visitors. Has anyone been to the more european countries of S.America? what was your experience like??
Thanks so much!
Patricia
San Fran, USA 05/01/2007
Black Paris Nightlife
I am in Paris all the time and while I am pass the age of nightclubs and hanging out, I can assure that in Paris you will not feel like the "only one". Paris is probably the most diverse city in Europe.
NYC, USA 04/30/2007
Black Paris Nightlife
I'm heading to Paris in Aug with a friend. We are both single, in our 20s, New Yorkers and are African-American professionals. I'm looking for someone to give me some insight on Parisian nightlife. Where can I go where I won't feel like the "only" one?
Michelle
New York, NY USA 04/27/2007
Study Abroad
I'm an african american student planning on doing a study abroad program in Barcelona. The program last 8 months!!! Anyone have any advice on the city/country? Safety, dining, sights, or advice on any and everything having to do with Barcelona would be greatly appreciated.
Michael <email>
Phoenix, AZ USA 04/17/2007
I am half Inupiat Eskimo and am from Alaska. I traveled to Germany a few years ago and had different reactions from the locals. A lot of people really dug the fact that I'm Eskimo and wanted to know more about my culture. Some people mistook me for being Arabic and called me nasty names but that didn't phase me. You just gotta hold your head up high and keep your cool when stuff like that happens. I did get a few stares from some people because of my exotic looks and they could tell that I was a "minority" but I took those as compliments. And it's not like the little discrimination I got was any worse than the kind that I encounter @ home. So just deal with it, blow off the bad experiences and be proud of who you are.
Michele
Fairbanks, AK USA 04/08/2007
Interracial couple in Italy
Hi,
As far as Italy goes, have fun! My fiancee and I (he's black, I'm white)had a great time. I have been numerous times and this was his first -- we both love it! The only real warning is to watch for the photo scams around the Colisseum.
We did take a day trip to the palace of Casserta which was fantastic and south of ROme (on the way to Naples). At the train station, we encountered some pretty agressive children begging. And (possibly the only racist reaction) wierd looks from 3 old men when we went into the restaurant at the train station (the cafe was fine). But it could have also been that we were the only tourists and maybe we got that look because we were outsiders. Or they were racist too. Who knows. Anyway, it was so smokey in there so we were leaving anyway. The rest of the time, our trip was awesome.
In addition to Rome and Casserta, we went to Florence, Pisa, Vercelli, Aosta, Courmayer (side trip to Chamonix,France) and Venice. We are planning on going back this fall with our soon to be 1 year old and his 6 yr old daughter.
L
Washington, DC USA 04/03/2007
Don't worry about Rome with your Italian boyfriend, I don't think it'll be any problem whatsoever. I'm a black male and when I was out and about with a couple white females touring Rome, I never noticed anyone looking, I'm usually pretty keen on noticing that sort of thing. I did notice lots of looks when I was in some small towns in the Cinque Terre region, but interestingly, most the looks seemed to be coming from other American tourists, not so much from the Italians themselves. Southern Italy, you're on your own there. I haven't been below Rome.
CA
US USA 03/27/2007
Extended stay in Rome, May-July
I am planning a trip to visit my boyfriend in Rome for a few months. I've been to Europe before, but this will be my first time in Italy. My main concerns as far as racism is concerned are: a) that we're an interracial couple(he's Italian, I'm black). I'm wondering what kinds of responses I can expect when we're together in the city? And b) I've read in some posts that Southern Italy is "bad"...can anyone elaborate? Dangerous? More racist? He is from the south, and I know I'll be traveling there too. Also, if anyone can give advice on finding short-term work in Rome, I'd really appreciate it.
USA 03/25/2007
Brenda- Florence
I traveled to Italy last summer and had a wonderful time! I was in Florence, Sienna, Venice and a bunch of small towns in Tuscany. I never had a problem at all..no stares, no propositions, nothing.. I am an African American women in my 40's. Go and have a glass of vino for me!
USA 03/19/2007
Travel
Britt
I'm not surprised that you were welcomed with open arms in Australia.We(Black Americans) are well respected and thought of by the Aussies.My only surprise would be if you weren't "hit on" by all the guys.I spent time in two vacation spots on different occasions here in the States and met several Aussies who were as good a people you could ever meet.Spent weeks around them and I have open invitations to visit Australia.I just wonder if they can be that cool toward Blacks,whites and Latinos,why do so many Aussies dislike Asians and Muslims?Can't figure that out for the life of me.One of them felt so comfortable as to admit to me, his dislike for Asians.I could not wait to correct him and say how wrong it is to group a bunch of people together in a negative way.He did apologize agreed to reconsider his opinions.Truth is hes a good guy that some how got off track,which I think is true of alot of people who dislike for no real reason.
Mike
USA 03/19/2007
Britt
Thank you for telling us about your experience traveling in Australia!! I plan on traveling there this summer!!!! How was the plane ride down there?
J
NY USA 03/19/2007
I know this is a European forum, but here is my take on Australia
I went to Australia last summer, and i did not encounter any racism. I stayed with a host family, and they asked me questions about what it is like to be a black american, but that was the only time that race was brought to my attention for the entire month that i was there.
They all loved my accent. Once i started talking, the store sales girls seemed to smile more, and be extra helpful. Australia is fun. I would love to go back.
Britt
Tacima, Wa USA 03/17/2007
Europeans are more accepting of diversity
Have you ever ask the question,why do we, people of color worry so much what others might think of us when traveling abroad or here at home? Could it have more to do with insecurity than any real threat from Europeans? Europe does not have the same discriminatory history as the United States. Maybe our history and experiences in America have tainted the way we see people who are not of color.Maybe that is why we assume something negative will happen to us in Europe.I think people of color must find a way to let go of the baggage that racism in America has burdened us with.At the very least we should view Europeans seperate from what took place and still happens in the States.My time living abroad has been an eye opener.
Forrest
Chicago & Paris, USA & France 03/10/2007
African American Women in Spain
Sandra, I went to Italy with my mother in 2000. It was lovely. We spent a couple of days in Florence and had no problems whatsoever. It is a beautiful city filled with history. You will have a great time.
Jacey
NYC, NY USA 03/09/2007
Mike the passionate
Bravo to you Mike.You are a noble person to care so much.But please don't deprive your self of seeing the many European cities that will amaze you.Trust me when I say that people like your self can make a hugh difference by visiting and allowing your strength of character to be shown as an example of American values.You mentioned Sweden,why not holiday there.You are sure to have a great time.Think about it.
Heather
New York, NY USA 03/06/2007
Respect and understanding go a long way; just remember while traveling you are a GUEST.
Nick
Scottsdale, AZ USA 03/05/2007
To Brenda
Brenda, I'm a guy, but I am African-American. I went to Florence last September. You should have no problems whatsoever. You'll have a great time, nothing to worry about whatsoever. Rome is cool as well. Just learn a few Italian survival phrases and don't walk up to people on the street speaking English. From what I hear, the main problematic parts of Italy are in the south, like Sicily.
Chris
L.A., CA USA 03/04/2007
Florence, Italy
I'm an African-American woman traveling alone to Florence, Italy in April and wanted to hear the experiences of other persons of color who have traveled there, particulary those of women travelers.
On another site, a black woman traveling alone stated that she was continuously harassed by men thinking she was a prostitute which was strange since she dressed like a tourist and these unwelcomed advances occured during the day.
Brenda <email>
Washington, DC USA 03/04/2007
Using a Voice
Luvpeace.......I don't think for a moment you prefer European people over American folk simply because of low self esteme or lack of acceptance at home.That assumtion would be as extreme to think anyone who points out racial problems in Europe, must not like Europeans or American caucasions.I don't think you meant to jump to such a wild conclusion.I love travel,it is a great educator and I recommend it to anyone who is curious about the world.But we have a responsibility to lend our voice in a way that uplifts those who don't have a voice.Blacks,Asians and Muslims are treated unfairly in certain European countries, and as American we should think more, than that of just our self.Muslims from Arab nations and Black people from Africa are treated very badly in France,Denmark,Netherlands and in Germany.I just don't feel comfortable ignoring discrimination even if I'm not the target.And I'm sure African Americans are treated well in many European countries but that is not the point.I respect Sweden so much for its selfless leadership and being the first European nation to attach sanctions against South Africa during the Apartied years.They could have stayed out of it and viewed the situation as not their fight.In that light,as a African American, how could I not take a stand against discrimination by not traveling to questionable countries!
Mike
USA 03/03/2007
Actually, five years ago I hosted a foreign exchange student from Germany for a year. He did not have a problem establishing friendships with other students at school from various ethnicities. He was very open with learning about American history and the history of other cultures. Just like I am.
A year after his stay his parents invited me to Germany. We had a blast! They are my extended family.
People take stereotypes and group people by those misconceptions. I just do not want you to paint a broad brush and group all Europeans as racists. Slavery and genocides still exist in Africa, but does that make all Africans bad? No, you must not take the negative behaviors of a few and group everyone in that same category because that is bias. I am curious to know if you have friends of other ethnicities here in the USA? I guess having friends of other ethnicities has made me more open and more accepting of others.
If you haven't even establish friendships with people of other ethnicities here in the USA, then I guess I can't convince you to travel to another country. If you have friends of other ethnicities wouldn't it be great to learn about their culture?
Travel to Europe and experience the world!
Luvpeace
USA 03/02/2007
Why Europe?
I'm sure its fun to experience a different type of food at a french bistro or to hear chatter in a foreign language while walking on a city sidewalk in germany.But what I'm not feeling is the outreach or desire of Europeans who want to interact with African Americans.I never hear how well the Europeans treat people of color from africa or muslim countries.Enfact it is said often, how badly treated muslims are in germany,france and in the scandinavian countries.As african Americans who know the experience of racism,don't we have the responsibility to take a stand by not visiting nations which discriminate against any ethnicities? A African American or Latino in Australia is welcomed with open arms,while a Muslim or Asian can expect a frosty reception.I'm of the opinion that spending money in a country that is not racist against me, but racist against others, is still supporting racism.
Mike
USA 03/01/2007
I could understand that you may have concerns about traveling to Europe. However, I do not understand why you do not want to experience cultural exchange and visit places outside of the USA. It is so beneficial to visit other countries outside of your own.
As an African American who has traveled to Belgium, the UK, Germany, and the Netherlands I encourage you and others to travel to Europe. I did not suffer hostility or face any problems in either of these countries during my visit.
The big citites in Europe are extremely diverse, but just like here in the USA the rural areas are not. I do not see why people in Europe will be any more racists than the people here in America. I find that I could relate to Europeans on a much deeper and an intellectual level than most Americans that I come into contact with.
Travel and experience the world. I have visited 15 countries outside of the USA and I truly enjoyed my experiences.
Yes, people have bad experience but African Americans just like here in the USA seem to think that every White person is out to get them. Don't assume that a person's rudeness or negative behavior is always a result of racism. Sometimes people are rude and that is within all cultures, ethnicities, and races. You should not allow rude or ignorant people to dictate rather you will travel or not. Also, racism is two way street. Many Whites will not receive great treatment in predominately black cities here in the USA. I just want Blacks to realize that not all white people are out to get them. Prejudice is not a White person's problem, but it is a worlwide problem that exist amongst all races of people.
Luvpeace
USA 03/01/2007
Good and bad people in Spain
Based on the experiences of many African Americans,Spain is not a country which has pride in, or fosters the concept of a multi-cultural society.You will not recieve racist comments or stares from most Spaniards but it will occur often enough to leave you with the opinion that most Spaniards are indeed racist.I wouldn't steer clear of Spain all together based solely on the many racist incidents reported by Asians and African Americans.You should visit and see it for your self and then determine if the experience was worth your time and money.Be friendly and polite at all times and let that behavior shape the opinion of how you are seen.
Tim
Sanford, Fl USA 02/28/2007
Barcelona and Madrid
From my own observations, Barcelona was not a nice place for people of color. I went in 1989 and 1991. Madrid was a lot better, though there was a bit of behind-the-back and under-the-breath comments made towards me(racial remarks). I am African-American. However, I observed a lot of anti-Asian feeling in Madrid, and overheard a Madrileno snarling about how much he hated the Chinese.
Philip
Adelphi, MD USA 02/25/2007
SPAIN
Sandra, I haven't been all over Spain just to Barcelona and Madrid. But I can tell you that there are more Africans in the country than Caribbeans. The Spanish, like every country in the EU is accustomed to seeing black people. Obviously, in some of the smaller towns there will be stares and assumptions, But the same thing can happen to you in the US. In Barcelona, you will definitely see black people. You should read some of the 2006 comments from this forum. I believe there are several African Americans who are currently living in Spain that were having some racial issues. But you've already said that wasn't going to stop you. For me, I've always traveled there with people who knew the area and I found many Spanish to be very friendly, especially when you try to speak the language. I also have Iraqi friends who've visited and they are quite brown and have said many good things about places like Seville and Valencia. So enjoy your time abroad. It's always cool to hear that more of us are traveling and deciding to stay over here.
CP
England 02/25/2007
Fine Artist,
Would you mind being a bit more specific in your description of certain areas of Sweden and Germany being more "friendly" to Black men, where exactly are you speaking of?
Mike
Detroit, MI USA 02/23/2007
Thinking of Moving to Spain
I am thinking of moving to Spain (Madrid) for a couple of years, and I would be interested in people's perception of racism there. I am a black Caribbean female. Although I doubt that I'll be put off one way or the other in terms of making a final decision on whether to move there or not, I would like to hear the thoughts and experiences of people who have actually visited and/or lived in Spain. Thanks.
Sandra
Houston, TX USA 02/20/2007
To Fine Artist
FineArtist: I appreciate and agree with most of your comments but I have to disagree with the assumption that Europeans are smarter than Americans on the whole. I find the Europeans are stereotyped as smarter and actually believe themselves to be smarter, but they often are not. Every now and then you might meet a well-educated and well-traveled European, but for the most part they see black Americans as the media portrays. A typical experience took place last night when some idiot was trying to convince his female friend to not talk to me. She blew him off and gave me her number. Then he comes over to me and states, I like hip hop; do you like hip hop? I give him the look of death and say "no." He then asks if I like jazz, and I say "no." With the most perplexed look he then asks what music I like. When I say classical, he is shocked and just walks away.
Europeans are sometimes a bit more refined in their disdain for black men. A high percentage of the women are open to black men, and I high percentage of European men resent the heck out of us. I have had to retrain myself on more than a few occasians from cracking the skull of a European man who, under the guise of friendliness, is about to start trouble.
I love living in Europe, but I will always be loyal to the USA where I can walk without fear of harassment and unprovoked attack unlike in Europe.
Europe is heaven for a clean cut, decent, black man. Thugs need not apply.
Minority Defender <email>
Sanford, FL USA 02/18/2007
Feedback/Stories
Interesting posts/responses to the 'what not to wear' topic. But, on to other things, shall we? I'm thinking of my summer vacation and here are a few options: Thailand, Dubai or Greece. I'd also like to take a few 'city breaks' in Switzerland, Spain, Malta and Italy at different times this year. If anyone has visited any of these countries and would like to share your experiences..recommend a nice hotel, hotel or restaurant. Feel free to do so.
I'll take the good with the bad. If you have a negative story to share, I guess I'll read it. I'm not looking for racism nor am I afraid of how I'll be perceived in any of these countries. It is quite nice though to read other people's experiences and maybe travel with a few tips. I'm black, american, female and have lived in Europe for several years now. I'm fairly well traveled and do encourage anyone visiting here, to not only travel but do try to live abroad..at least for a while. You don't have to give up your American citizenship, but it would benefit you greatly to live outside the States.
I'm, also, probably one of the only people here who doesn't believe that Europeans are more sophisticated, intelligent, or generally better than me or my countrymen. Nor am I impressed with an accent. What's that all about people? Cliche as it sounds, there are good and bad people and being a 14kt jackass w/ an English accent, in my book makes you: an English jackass! NOT CHARMING!haha
Well, enough of my ramblings, please share your stories if you have them.
Traveler
England 02/16/2007
Black American male Artist has traveled
I have traveled all over the World. However, to this very day, I have not received as much brutal and institutionalized racism as i have experienced in the good ole US of A. The so called land of the free was the reason why I started traveling. I am a visual artist and while having no opportunities to exhibit my art in america. I went abroad where I have received a very high level of recognition. True Artists, in particular black american male artists are not appreciated at all in america. I am alone, women don't know how to relate to me in america. I guess because I dont have a Hummer with big rims. and i think differently because I have spent so much time abroad. I don't see America as "#1" and I don't worship TV. I actually read. and the fact that I ride a italian Scooter (I brought back from the EU)makes me even 'weirder' too i guess. The scooter is totally a turn off to the women. as it doesn't use much petrol like these big crappy American cars.
Anyhow, my ultimate goal is to leave America forever. There is nothing here for me but a life of loneliness and death. As a black american male, it is easier said than done to reside abroad for extended times. And as an American, my citizenship offers me few to no options to live abroad for any extended period of time. Another reason why america sucks.
Anyhow, I like the EU, the uk excluded. I have traveled around and have met many different people. from Skinheads to Academics. From racists to humanitarians. However, out of all of that, I can say that Europe is very diverse. If you are black and male, watch your back but realize that you will be treated like a human being by I'd say, about 45% ofthe time. Far greater than that in the USA, that is unless the black person is of the token variety. Then america is "#1" then.
I am looking for someone in the EU to sponsor me so I can get the hell out of America. I am very, very unhappy here as a painter. though i joke about this, it is quite serious. I really do hate this place.
If anyone wants to marry a visual artist (i'm serious) or knows someone who wants to sponsor an artist. Please contact me.
EU countries that don't openly display hatred of black American men that are worth visiting/investing in are:
The Netherlands Denmark some parts of sweden Tiny parts of Deutschland (not the east) sometimes France On rare occassions, the UK (mostly around London)
Places to avoid are:
Russsia the Ukraine spain portugal southern Italy some parts of France parts of sweden Parts of Germany, especially the SOUTH All of eastern Europe Greece The West midlands (UK) N.