assert themselves as the best around, as Stephen explained to me on the train ride up Stephen obviously has a problem with Ireland's diversity. The vast majority of parades go along traditional routes without any trouble and are usually joyous occasions - especially in the countryside. Some of those traditional routes have subsequently become Nationalist/Catholic. In addition to the logistical problem of re-routing marches the manner in which some of these areas became Nationalist is often a sore point with Unionists/Protestants and so many insist that to abandon them is a major symbolic victory for the other side. (The Irish take symbolism quite seriously). Nationalists, of course, resent the presence of Unionists marching through areas they live in. Attempts to mediate such disputes have been more successful in recent years but there is still a significant minority on each side that cannot get beyond the zero-sum mindset. The only 'solution' is to re-route smaller parades and to limit the number of parades so that only the main annual celebrations in each area (eg. Twelfth of July) are allowed to cross through contentious areas but with the Orangemen lowering their banners and the bands going silent for the duration of the march through such areas.

Posted by: Andrew - Dec 17, 2008 3:54 PM

I guess I didn't format that correctly. Let's see how this one works. You also wrote: 'We continued down the street into a dangerously Protestant neighborhood called Sandy Row. Stephen explained there was a song with the line in it “…We're from Sandy Row where the Catholics never dare to go…” It was a bit of a rush to feel like you were in the enemy's home turf.' I used to work in a building on the other side of Sandy Row with a mostly Nationalist/Catholic who would park their cars on Sandy Row and have lunch at a 'chippy' on the street a couple of times a week. No one ever bothered them. Unless you provocatively advertise yourself as being on the other side it's completely safe these days. Lastly, when people in Belfast refer to 'Catholics' or 'Protestants' as the enemy they do NOT mean Catholics or Protestants from outside Northern Ireland. So rest easy next time you're in Belfast no one will consider you an enemy because of your religion! On the other hand, if you take sides in the conflict, as many American busy-bodies have a tendency to do, then all bets are off.

Posted by: Andrew - Dec 17, 2008 4:18 PM

Good to see your impressions of the Orange marches online andy... I see another Andrew is a wee bit upset and has stated I obviously have 'a problem with Ireland's diversity'. If i can post a message to that Andrew: Ive no problem with Irelands diversity, in fact I embrace it, and I pray for the day where all Irishmen, protestant, catholic and everyone else respect each other in a spirit of tolerance and mutual understanding and acceptance... I would even go as far as to say Im one of the few Tour Guides from a nationalist background who actively encourages and promotes attendance at Orange parades so tourists can judge for themselves what it all means...Funny thing is If I did have a problem with Orange marches, I wouldnt have suggested Andy Steves and I (and our girlfriends!) both fork out a whopping £33 each for the train to rainy, dreary Belfast that day and instead wouldve suggested we stayed in bustling Dublin and had a few pints of Guinness in temple bar, though I suppose £30 wouldnt have bought many pints in there these days!!

Posted by: Stephen McPhilemy - Dec 17, 2008 9:26 PM

You know I am not sure what to make of these parades. I am a 35 y/o protestant pastor and i think it is important for folks to identify with their faith tradition or even political ideologies, but to march down streets of other communities seems provocative and rude. I could understand if they marched in their own neighourhoods, but to go into a Roman Catholic/Republic strong hold is just wrong. Then again I am American and i am not from the area, but from the outside it just seems wrong.

Posted by: Jeff - Dec 18, 2008 9:31 AM

I am an American married to a Northern Irish Catholic and we live in the States. However, we have traveled to NI in summer to visit family, and the marches rev up long before July 12 and continue on--all with the justification that this is somehow "cultural". Flat out,I find it nothing more than institutionalized racism. Substitute any two other religious/ethic/racial groups in America or around the world doing something like this and you'll see what I mean. The television coverage would lead you to think this was N.Ireland's version of the Rose Bowl Parade. But when you are stuck in traffic because a march is going by, and your relatives say, if asked, not to tell anyone the (obviously Irish) name of your son traveling with you,the reality dawns that this marching business is something else entirely. I think people should know about the marches as Stephen states--if only so they don't mistaken them for some grand celebration that has the support of all Irish people.It's not like that.

Posted by: Debbie - Jan 18, 2009 9:34 AM

I'm a 31 year old from outside the UK living in Belfast. I find Belfast as a city quite racist. It's not just a problem between the two main communities in NI. I think there is quite a lot of hatered for people from 'outside' the UK. I think in this day and age, Belfast really needs to get more international in it's perspective and genuinely accept and even encourage people from different parts of the world here to do good work. Unfortunately, I can't see that working out in the near future, in any case.

Posted by: SR - Jul 12, 2009 1:19 PM