American credit cards in Europe
Recently read NY Times report on European cards with chips that American cards don't feature. Report said some European ATMs and automated ticket nachines at train stations may not accept U.S. cards. Anyone run into this problem?
Larry
Hanover, NJ USA 10/7/09
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Schwab credit card- visa is great- No transaction fees was a big plus, and it worked fine- I used it for settling hotel checks and shopping. I used it for close to $1000 dollar and I think got a pretty decent exchange rate- euro-dollar rate for the day
I have utilized both AE and Visa debit. Never a problem.
Larry,
The NY Times article is true to some extent. Some of the automated ticket machines used in Europe will now ONLY work with the newer "chip" credit cards, and based on some reports here some merchants are refusing to accept older cards (especially in Holland).
One example is the ticket machines at CDG, which will ONLY accept "chip" credit cards and Euro coins; magnetic stripe cards will NOT work. The staffed ticket office will still accept magnetic stripe cards. I found that the ticket machines at Milano Centrale will still accept older credit cards, although I suspect these will also be configured for "chip" cards at some point in the near future.
"Chip" debit cards are also being introduced now which might impact ATM machines, but it's likely they will still accept magnetic stripe cards for a while.
Cheers!
Our chip-less cc's and debit card would not work in machines at any Metro or train station in Paris and we saw many other Americans having the same result.
Pat, on the Helpline, has pointed out that AMEX cc's have chips in them, so those would work. Not everyone has, or can get, AMEX though.
It's not that big a deal, but is something to be aware of.
If you travel with a bunch of cash in your moneybelt and a credit card, you only have to worry about those rare situations where you might want to use your card in an automated sales machine when there is no "staffed" alternative. Notoriously, this might be a gas station on the weekend.
You can't use automated ticket machines at train stations, so leave enough time to buy from a human attendant.
We just returned from France and Italy. We did have difficulty using several cards on the Autoroute at the toll booths. At one place we tried 3 Visa's and finally went to American Express. However, we did not have any problems elsewhere using the other 3 Visa's including cash withdrawals at ATM's.
It should be noted that only certain types of American Express credit card are "chip-and-pin." It depends on what type of account you have with AmEx. So ... some AmEx cards will work and some won't. (Mine won't.)
As I and the others have found out, automated places in Europe may not be able to take our cards.
Toll booths, train ticket machines, unattended gas pumps, bike kiosks for example won't take our cards. ATM's (bancomat, cashpoint, etc) pretty much always take our stripe cards. Restaurants, shops and hotels usually always have a machine where they can swipe our cards without a PIN.
Can we put together an unofficial list of "chip and PIN" cards that are available in the US? Not having one has never been a show-stopper for me in Europe, but with each subsequent visit, I find myself getting more and more inconvenienced by this. The last straw for me was not having enough coins for a metro ticket at an unattended Brussels station and getting soaked in the rain because I had to walk.
The only chip & pin card available in the US is American Express. The catch-22 is that AE isn't widely accepted across the pond.
Another work-around is to purchase a pre-paid debit card once you arrive in Europe. The European version of these cards have the chip.
How and where do you purchase pre-paid debit cards at, for instance, the airport. If European ATMs stop taking our cards, that or cash from home might become our only options. Will they accept a non-chip US card for payment? I'm sure our US banks will charge us a commission (usually 3%) for that transaction. Is there a fee or % discount to use the pre-paid cards? If so, considering that Wells Farge only charges 5% over the interbank rate, we might be better off just to get Euro over here.
BTW, I try to use cash in Europe whenever possible. I hit the ATM three times on my last trip, and used a CC only once. I arrived at the Bahnhof in Freilassing to take the train across the river to Salzburg. The only ticket machine I could find only took cards, so I had to use a CC for the €2,10 ticket! Fortunately it took my US card.
Look for U.S. banks to start issuing chip cards on request and tacking on huge fees to get one or to use one.
(Sigh)... yet another example of how Europe keeps modernizing and adapting and we keep sinking further behind...
I tried to start up a discussion on this two weeks back, when I had just returned from our trip.
It is INDEED becoming more and more of a hassle.
I would say I lost two and a half hours of sightseeing time (and the first scene of a show, where tickets were pre-paid, on-line) because of being rejected by automated machines.
"Chip and PIN" is just the name the British government has given to these EMV standard cards (which is named for a group effort between Europay, MasterCard and VISA) with the new chips in them instead of the old-school magnetic stripes that we're still using.
Because it apparently reduces fraud, let's hope it becomes fairly easy so get one of these soon.
Bill,
A point to mention - "chip" credit cards are now being issued in Canada, and "chip" debit cards will be introduced in 2010.
If you have any relatives in Canada, perhaps you can get a supplementary card on their account before your next trip to Europe.
Cheers!
I have been to Italy the last two years and have never had a problem with an ATM or Credit Card at the automated kiosks in the train stations, nor at the automated toll booths on the Autostrada. I did however, have some difficulty once at a gas station. The attendant had a handheld reader. I had to pay cash instead.
Last year (Nov'08) I had a problem using my ATM only card at ATMS in Germany even after the bank (TD Banknorth) said there would be no problem. I don't believe in debit cards, they are such a bad deal no matter what the bankers say. Good thing I still had some travelers checks in my backpack from a previous trip!
We just got back from a stay in Paris. We opened an HSBC checking account before leaving and used a debit card throughout Paris. We were able to buy Metro tickets at the machines, use ATM's and pay everywhere. HSBC has many branches in Paris and we avoided additional ATM fees. The key is getting a new card from a bank that has european branches.
Come on, Tim, are you a troll trying to stir the pot? Do you truly believe that debit cards are a bad deal and travel checks are a good deal?? If you do, you are a universe of one who believes that. But you are free to use any method you like.
We just back from 30+ days in Europe. No problems anywhere with debit cards but ticket machines in the Netherlands, Belgium didn't like our credit cards. That added a slight cost as there is a 3,60 E service fee to buy a ticket from a live, ticket agent.
I agree with Frank. I used debit/ATM cards in Germany last month without problems. Cash from an ATM is rateless/feeless with one bank, 1% rate and $2 fee with the other bank. Using my credit card for a POS would cost 3% or 1% depending on which bank.
Getting cash from the ATM with my credit card would be a 4% (?) cash advance fee, plus exchange rate, plus immediate interest.
I used my debit card in a ticket automat once with a 1% exch rate.
Last time I cashed US travelers cheques in Europe (9 yrs ago) I was charged 6%.
We had no problems last December using our cards in ATMs, however, I used cash only for all purchases, so I can't speak outside of the ATMs. (I generally went to banks, and this was in Germany and No. Italy.)
Frank, Using travelers checks is not my preferred way of obtaining cash but in an emergency it does the trick. In previous trips to Europe I never had any trouble using my ATM card till last year. Here is another view on debit cards that supports my view . http://redtape.msnbc.com/2007/09/paper-or-plasti.html
Tim, that articles has absolutely nothing to do with the current discussion about getting cash from ATMs and, in fact, supports the idea of using a debit card for ATM transactions ----
"you are better off sticking with credit cards and using debit card only to get cash at ATMs."
Which is the exact point most of us make.
Frank, I still believe debit cards are a lousy deal.The security features of credit cards over debit cards cannot be denied. What I would like, this being my major point is that ATM cards to have equal access as debit cards at ATMs. I don't want to go to the trouble of getting a debit card for traveling abroad and then canceling it when I return. Banks (at least mine)let you have one or the other but not both.
What really irked me was the bank said the ATM card would be fine and wasn't. They could not even see where the card was being put in the CIRRUS system for a transaction. That being said what is it going to take US banks to issue chip and pin cards an act of Congress?
Worth repeating.
Some newer, chip-oriented pay points — especially automated ones (such as pay-at-the-pump gas stations or ticket machines) — can no longer read the magnetic strip on American credit cards at all. If this is the case, try to find a clerk to process the transaction the old-fashioned way. If the machine is completely unstaffed, you might simply find yourself out of luck. So far, no American bank has announced plans to issue chip and PIN cards (although they are being introduced in Canada).
I'm a monetic expert surveying comments from american cardholders. Actually, what's written here is a myth. American cardholders' ability or inability to use their mag-stripe cards in Europe has nothing to do with chip and pin. This inability is as a result of unattended terminals (and some attended) inability to do online authorization of your purchase.
See my blog : http://www.finextra.com/community/fullblog.aspx?id=3491
Although VISA and MC advertise that no merchant can(?)/should refuse your card, even here in France, merchants refuse my CHIP and PIN card when my purchase is under 10 euros.
So, don't put down your mag-stripe and say that the U.S. is behind. There is safety and security in having magstripe and signature based cards. When you don't have a pin-code, then fraudsters are not interested in skimming your card. Skimming is only interesting and worthwhile if the fraudster gets the pin-code, cause they usually produce a white plastic, paste the cloned mag-stripe and go to ATMs and withdraw money using your valid pin-codes.
The chip isn't bad. The static pin-code that goes with it is what makes it unsafe and makes it a prime target for fraudsters.
Read my blog, and you'll understand that card fraud for american cards is actually less than half of the fraud rate of chip and pin.
Oh. one other thing. We, here in Europe do not use our cards for small purchase amounts. Common practice is that anything less than 10 euros is paid with cash.
Thank you, marite, for posting your blog address. A very well-written article that shows the situation is more complicated than most people think.
I have a VISA Electron card from Citibank in Spain. I live in the USA, but I opened a Euro account in Barcelona last year. I have used the card successfully for online purchases, as well as at restaurants and hotels in Europe. But, as you accurately state, not every merchant will accept VISA Electron. When I tried making a purchase at a restaurant at the Amsterdam airport, they said they would not accept the card.
My card is not chip and pin. Maybe that will change when the card expires? And, there is no annual fee -- for now!
Now if feel better about my old swipe card now. I like having online authorization of my large purchases vs. offline. But the chip and pin will be better for those small things like tolls.
I was worried about those "stored value" chip cards where the money available was "in the chip." Lose the card, lose the money!
anyone know if the toll roads in czech. and prague take the american visa cards. we have not run into tolls in austria and germany but wondering about those if they exist. we found in germany, austria and switz. just about any machine that takes a credit card, also take cash, hence my always carrying a least a hundred euros at all times.
duh is friday. meant to say toll roads in czech and hungary.
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