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James,

Wow! Can't believe you've been there that long and haven't made it to Venice or the Berner Oberland!

I would say skip Lucerne and just spend the whole time in the Berner Oberland! It's the most beautiful place on earth! If you had a couple more days I would say fly to Venice then train it up to the BO and home again. Venice is a one of a kind place, but might be frustrating with preschoolers due to the crowds.

You've already been to Paris - GO SOMEPLACE NEW!!!

As interesting as Venice is, there's only so much of interest there (and this is from an art person). if you have only spent two days in Paris, I'd opt for the full time in Paris. There are wonderful Parks in Paris for the kids, lovely walks, wonderful cafes in addition to the sites. Paris would give you a relaxing and interesting family vacation, IMO.

My vote would be for Venice (even with the long train ride home). There is more than enough there (even if you don't love art) to occupy your time for 2.5 days.

Yes, yes...you can spend endless amounts of time in Paris and always find something different (I know, I've been there - and, albeit for a short time, so has the OP). And Switzerland does have beautiful mountains (but I'd make the argument that so does North America and as James' preschoolers start to get older and he has to take shorter vacations within the US or Canada, hiking around the Rockies might be an ok substitute).

What we don't have here is a Venice and if you go with the understanding that you spend only the necessary time among the crowds to see the big tourist draws and then the remaining time walking around the back canals and streets of Venice where the hordes of tourists just don't venture, that's where you find the charm and the good food. The people who complain about how crowded it is or how horrible the food is are, in all likelihood, never venturing more than 1/4 mile from the tourist draws. And kids love riding on boats which Venice is chock full of.

All I would have to hear is "Otzi the Iceman" and I'd be packing my bag and hunting for the portable DVD player and couple of Disney flicks to keep the kid occupied on the long train ride.

I like option one just because of the ice man, my 11 yr old considered it one of the highlights of her trip to Europe, and I did too, but its a small museum , so only about 1.5-2 hours worth. Venice is ok. With toddlers in strollers I would consider it a bit of a pain,, all those cute little arched bridges you see, they are not ramped, they are stairs,, you will carry strollers up and down them .

The third option I like because it is Paris and you really can fill weeks in Paris,, there is lots for kids and adults there.

The second option would be nice too, but we do have amazing Rockies here, you won't be doing much hiking with toddlers, if kids were 6 or 7 plus would be different.

Oh Gosh - it will be such a change to not to think of you organizing all of Europe's weather from your lair in Ansbach. I hope you will continue to stay in touch.

As much as I absolutely love Venice, and I strongly feel that everybody should have the bounty of visiting such a wonderful place, I am very much alive to how hard that much train time on such a short trip would be on the kiddoes.

Paris is what Paris is, and it is wonderful as you have discovered.

But Luzern, with all the things that you and your bride could do, as well as plenty to keep the kiddoes busy, and both the mountains around as well as the magnificent Vierwaldstaettersee - I love it - with Rigi and lots and lots around; I really like Basel, too. Haven't seen the zoo in Basel, planned for July this year, but I hear very good things.

I'm not in your shoes, but if I were that's what I'd plump for.

Whichever you pick, or something completely different, I hope you really enjoy it and are able to savour your memories.

Will toss in my vote similar to what Nigel said. Go for Door #2.

Save Venice for sometime when the kids are older and you and your lovely wife can go alone. You can always take a Space A sometime down the road, making it cheap.

Germany won't be the same without you! We will miss you and your family.

James,

My sentiments are along the same lines as those of Nigel. I hope you'll be able to continue contributing to the HelpLine, but it's going to be a bit of an "adjustment" to see something other than "Ansbach" in your profile.

Regarding "Doors No. 1, 2 & 3", I agree with the others that the Door No. 2 is the one I would suggest. While Venice is a unique and beautiful spot, I'm not sure it would be best for pre-schoolers. You've already seen Paris, so (IMO) it would be better to visit somewhere new, and Switzerland would be an excellent choice.

Lucerne is a beautiful city with lots of touring possibilities for three days, although I suspect you'll have to pace the activities to match the attention and energy span of your children. Have you got some ideas on what sights you want to see in that area?

As Jill mentioned, you could also consider the Berner Oberland instead of Lucerne. Which place to choose will depend to some extent on whether you're more interested in city touring or country touring with quintessential Swiss scenery. With the Berner Oberland, budget will also be a concern, as the mountain lifts (especially the Jungfraujoch) are expensive!

Perhaps you could do both - base in Lucerne with a day trip to the Berner Oberland? The rail trip is 2 hours each way (to Interlaken Ost).

Good luck with your decision and happy travels!

I've given ourselves about 20 hours from this posting to make up her mind. As of now, she's leaning towards Paris, primarily because it's the easiest to get to (6 1/2 trip, one change each way). I'll give her that there's plenty we still want to see in Paris, so filling the itinerary wouldn't be difficult. I booked a place in Suresnes just in case (late booking for June in Paris = not cheap).

http://www.les-jardins-de-camille.fr/

I still have the apartment booked in Venice. I know Venice is the most unique place, something that we'll never replicate in the US. But we went to Budapest via train, and we just came back from Brussels via train. I'm not sure how some of you folks do it, but long distance train rides hurt. I find it incredibly boring, and I would rather drive (riding on trains makes me more tired than driving). Plus the wife has had "migraines" on each train trip. The kids are reasonable, but it's hard to keep a 5 and 4 year old entertained in one spot for so long.

http://www.casadeipittori.com/veniceapartments/apt7.htm

I like the assessment that Switzerland is the closest thing to replicate in the states, and the kids are too young to do any moderate hikes. The wife is now saying I can go to Switzerland by myself, but you know she doesn't mean it. Her other beef is the idea of cable cars scares her to death, so if we did go to the BO instead of Lucerne we'd have to stay in Lauterbrunnen or even Interlaken (Grindelwald would be an option).

And kids haven't rode in a stroller in at least 18 months, plus they are ubertourists (they enjoy anything artistic), so significant walking up mountains or cobblestones won't be a factor.

I'd still consider Venice. Everyone should see it once. And there's not much to do at night, so no bad feelings about staying in with the tots.

Venice gets the gold metal, Paris Silver, Lucerne Bronze.

James, they all sound like fantastic trips to me but the first thing I keep in mind when deciding where to go, is the people who are going with me. What they will enjoy or what is too much of a challenge for them has a direct effect on how much of a good time I'll have. So, considering that you'll have your little ones with you, I'd give the Paris trip 10 points out of 10.

Am I mis-remembering, or didn't you write something a little while ago about regretting not getting to London before you leave Europe?

How is it that London didn't get on the list? It would be perfect for a 5-day jaunt. It's also only a couple hours from Paris...

Randy, your memory is correct. Perhaps I mispoke about the money part, but when I originally bought airline tickets for an April trip, it cost 600 euro for 4 round trip tickets nonstop Nuremberg to Gatwick. Those same tickets now run 1200 euro. I could purchase cheaper tickets than that but they take 4 hours, or I could take the train for 221,80 euro to Venice or Switzerland for all of us roundtrip, or 281,80 euro to Paris. Trust me, if I could score cheap plane tix again, we wouldn't even be talking about this.

James, have you priced out airfare from Venice back home to Ansbach? If the one-way fare is cheap enough for the four of you, a long train ride home would be eliminated.

Linda

Linda, I did price a one-way, but I just looked again and I found a Venice-Stuttgart flight for $430 for all 4 of us on AirBerlin. Hmmm....

I'm hungry! I have to go potty! I'm thirsty! I not hungry! I don't like my food! I can't walk anymore! I'm tired! I don't want to do that! I wanna go back to the hotel! It smells here! I've heard these things come out of an adults' mouth.
As a parent I'm sure you and your wife have ample skills in dealing with your children and will do just fine. Don't sweat it.

I've never been to Venice so I won't comment on Venice. But considering all of your info I would have to say Lucerne would be the logical choice especially with children. Your hotel in Paris is still kind of far if you are using public transit? I understand you had to make a financial choice though.

IMO, I think Lucerne and Basel would present fewer opportunities for stress. Choose mellow over harried. Paris and Venice seem like just too much for 5 days with 2 young children.

Kayak is showing Nuremburg to London LHR at under $200 RT for your dates. Flights are Air France and KLM, one stop in each direction, total transit time around four hours.

If you can Stuttgart Venice within budget by air, I change my vote and now again start lobbying for Venice.

If Lola's LHR works I'd bump that too.

Have you tried Stansted, Luton or London City airports?

Lola, you must have the magic button, because I see $191 NUE to London, but when you click on the link it shows up as 1112,28 euro for 4 tickets.

All three options are valid, but I would choose option one and three, mainly I don't care for Switzerland. You can spend a day trip going from Paris to Fontainebleau...that's a historical place.

Since you reserved a place in Suresnes and if in the mood to see another historical site, (might be difficult without a car), the American Military Cemetery is located there...both wars are included, one to each side as you approach it. I've been there, it's poignant.

Very direct train ride back, Paris Est (ICE) to Frankfurt, then Frankfurt-Nürnberg (ICE), Nürnberg-Ansbach.

Darn it James, you are right. I didn't proceed to booking before, just saw the fares on the opening page. I thought I had found a good deal, but Kayak (or rather Air France/KLM) is pulling a bait-and-switch. That is really annoying.

soooo .... 20 hours having elapsed; drum roll .....

and the answer is ...............?

Extended a bit. wife wants Paris including a day at Versailles (kids are somehow brainwashed to agree with Paris). I still want Venice, for no other reason than it's the one and only chance to go there. There's talk of just me getting a 3 night kitchen pass to Switzerland, but going solo will come back to haunt me for the rest of my married life, even though she claims that it's okay.

James,

I don't envy the dilemma you're facing. Although I suggested Switzerland in my earlier reply, my second choice would have been Venice (again, as you've already been to Paris). Seeing "streets of water" would be something unique for your children. Venice is somewhat more "fragile" than Paris, so it would be good to see it while you have the opportunity.

As the old saying goes "happy wife, happy life", so your decision might come down to that.

Good luck!

James,

If your wife says it is okay with her that you take a short trip without her, maybe she really means it. I took a 3 week trip to Europe last fall with a friend and my husband was totally okay with it. I've taken a few other trips without him, though not international trips. As long as I bring him back some goodies he is happy for me to have fun, even if it's without him. I have been married almost 27 years, so that may make a difference. Of course you know your wife better than anyone else, but it might be worth pursuing that trip.

I have an alternative suggestion - Maybe you could do the family trip to Venice, then separately have her go to Paris for a few days with a friend, and you go to Switzerland for a few days. Do you have someone to watch the kiddos if she goes away for a few days?

James: I was watching the Today Show this morning, and the live coverage of the Diamond Jubilee in London made realize how much I love that city. Paris is Paris, and it's hard to beat, but I could spend more time in London than probably any other big city in Europe (Paris is number 2, but it's been number 1 on my list before). Someone in another thread wanted to know which city would best for two straight weeks (with side trips)...London is an easy choice. Is there any possible way to swing it from Paris...Eurostar isn't cheap, but it is fast and easy? What about a budget flight from Paris? It would be a shame to miss it since you have a desire to go. Wife would be happy with Paris...you would be happy with London...kids would probably be happy with both...big cities have lots of diversions.

For one, I hope you remain a faithful Helpline contributor when you leave Europe. You have a certain knack for keeping people grounded in reality, which is kind of refreshing and not typically seen here. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I have laughed out loud reading your posts. Plus, thanks for your service to the country (not that you're leaving the service necessarily, but I like to say thanks when I can)!

I am quite surprised you're asking for advice to be honest. You always knew so much when others posted :-)

Let the old lady choose. She's the boss.

I like Andreas' advice, if it's feasable for you time/moneywise. You're going home soon - I'd really try to squeeze in what you both want to do before you're back in the US daydreaming about Europe and cursing $1500 flights.

I'm already panicking about this and we still have a year and a half (possibly more) left. And to think when I first got here, the idea of staying for 3 whole years brought me to tears.

I agree with others that I hope you keep posting here, you've given some great advice and you're the funniest guy on the forum, even if we don't often agree.

James,

Although London is a wonderful city and well worth a visit, I would not visit there at this time! The Queen's Jubilee Celebrations are just winding down, and the Olympics will be getting up to speed soon. I've seen a few reports that room prices have risen sharply in advance of the Olympics, and rooms may be difficult to find.

I'd save London for another time.

Cheers!

And so it is...

Venice - no changes to original plan.