Travel Snobs
C'mon now. Admit it. You all know one (or two) and are guilty of being one at some point or other.
You know the type. "I've been to XXX number of countries and you haven't so I'm more sophisticated than you are." Or worse, "We don't travel to touristy spots. WE prefer to go to the hard to reach, remote places that truly enrich our cultural experiences."
So why do some travellers behave this way? Do we really believe that we are "better" because we've been to the top of some remote volcano or the bottom of some canyon that took us a rickety old plane ride, a derelict bus ride and a 10 mile walk to get to?
And yes, I DO know some people like this.
Kathleen
Bolton 10/25/12
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I agree with Ralph. This topic can blow apart quickly, and probably will. Jerks are jerks, no matter the circumstances. Travel, no-travel, liberal, conservative, my team, your team -- no matter what they do, they will be jerks about it. It is best to just walk away.
I've run into some people who have traveled a lot and still are not sophisticated or worldly by any definition (sounds snobbish to say, doesn't it). The more I travel, the more humble I feel about what is out there still to find.
"We prefer to go to the hard to reach, remote places that truly enrich our cultural experiences."
Not at all impressed with indicating the number of visits to Europe coupled with the number of nights (or years) in Europe when reading a reply. Frankly, this does little to prove one's superior travel prowess anywhere, including in Europe. However, I am impressed hearing from truly well-traveled folks who go "off the beaten path" all of the time and will gladly share the culturally rich experiences they've had visiting The World's Largest Hand-Dug Well, The Loess Hills, The Flint Hills, Area 51, or the Villisca Ax Murder House. Add your favorite remote tourist site as you wish, but these type of tourists are actually much more authentic, interesting, and probably have more travel expertise than those trying to prove they're better than others because of where they've been, the number of times they've been there, etc.
It's hard to claim you're sophisticated when you're standing knee-deep in a benjo ditch.
Being well-traveled means you have free time and money. That's it.
But it is helpful to have been somewhere before answering questions about it; simply quoting a link can be less than helpful and some may think that the poster is either a person of few words or has never been somewhere but can do a googling.
On the other hand when a question is posed like how do I get to my (un-named) hotel from the airport, sometimes posted with those precise words, just posting a link to the page that said hotel (finally prised out of the poster) which answers the question is sufficient.
From your other recent post I see that you prefer to use a travel agent. Most people here don't as we have discovered that most of them haven't been to most places (if any) and have less knowledge than we do.
That's not arrogant or being more sophisticated, but actual knowledge is valuable.
Do people come on here, ask one question and wander off, or do people look around while they are here and learn from related posts? Learning substantial background about contributors allows a questioner to gauge the response.
Agree completely that knowledge is valuable...no doubt about it...that's the whole point of the Helpline. But what's the value in saying something like, "Well, I've spent 563 nights over 23.4 years in Europe, and I can assure you that..." when formulating a reply? Don't answer...it's a rhetorical question. I haven't seen this as much lately, but it was a daily occurrence previously.
A lot of my posts are admitted snarky rebuttals to folks that I consider travel snobs, since I consider the guy whose picture is on this website to be one. So name names, and I will hunt them...
The irony in this - some might think that I'm the travel snob.
Yes, I admit to being a travel snob on occasion... going to start a self help group for the condition... any other takers?
Did I miss some recent flame war or something? First the post on "a kinder, gentler forum", now this one? I haven't seen any particularly snappy or rude replies lately.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again- despite some disagreements, this is one of the most civil forums I've seen anywhere on the internet. And it's also very well self-policed. Although I can only speak for myself, I'm a regular here not just to contribute and admire my own posts... I'm here to learn from others. I want to have trust in the information I read here. And if it takes a "travel snob" to call out bad information, then so be it.
Yeah, I'm guilty too of sometimes being a travel snob...
Nigel, I don't "prefer" to use a travel agent. I actually prefer to use family/friends/coworkers and then the internet to do my research. BUT I find that the internet is fraught with travel snobs (a few here at times) who tend to make asking/learning about travel a less than pleasant experience.
I've had to resort to travel agents at times simply because I don't need to have someone look down on me because I haven't been to that little out of the way French village that only the truly well travelled have seen.
Ralph, I'm all ears regarding the St Petersburg metro, drinking vodka and two secret service agents. :-)
I sort of agree with Ralph. With regards to some of the other comments remember things can often come out sounding different than intended when clicking away at a keyboard. I do like to know that a person actually went to the place they are discussing. And I like to know if it was for a day or a week because it's easy to get a skewed impression in a short period of time. Still valid, I just weigh it differently. I also assume everything I read is an opinion and opinions are just that, "opinions". None are right or wrong. Context is everything and we don't get much of that in a format like this so any added information is helpful. If the person sounds a little snooty then I would imagine the place the recommend may have some of the same attributes. Hey, sometimes I like snooty. You never know. But generally I think the people here are good, decent, well meaning individuals and I've never felt as though someone was being intentionally rude.
I think sometimes people who mention the number of times or amount of time they have spent somewhere don't do it to show their "travel prowess" as much as to say that their opinion is based on more than a single visit somewhere. We all know people who act as authorities about certain subjects who have, it turns out later, never been there, or been there one day as part of a cruise, or some other limited experience. If someone is asking about peoples' experience with something, having had more than one exposure to it can be as helpful as multiple people with one each.
"We all know people who act as authorities about certain subjects who have, it turns out later, never been there, or been there one day as part of a cruise, or some other limited experience."
Yup. Do we need to mention YOU-KNOW-WHO again? Someone like that can (and did) poison a valuable forum like this.
Nancy's right. Within the proper context, one might offer up some data regarding number of visits to bolster the recommendation their making...that's okay. But sometimes, it seems the intent is to prove superiority. BTW, since we're gettin' all GHW Bush-like with the titles of our threads now, I thought I would throw out that the Helpline community is like, "...a thousand points of light in a broad and peaceful sky." Too cheesy?
Yes, Tom, that is exactly who I was referring to. My favorite "expertise" post of his was when he told someone that, yes, you can take cars on the ferry to the Aran Islands in Ireland, and posted a link to a ferry to Arran Island off of Scotland. Aran Island ferries only take people, but you can take cars to Arran Island. He never backed down.
What really bugs me is those people who don't have the initiative or the knowledge to break free of the well known, touristy places, but defensively criticize those who do and share their enjoyment of those places, as snobs.
In my mind the 'snobs' are those with an extremely superficial knowledge and can more accurately be described as 'bores'.
They've been somewhere once, but never looked around the corner. They've been to a lot of places, but can only describe the hotels. They've never seen anything not listed in a guidebook. They know the history of nothing. They can't compare two dissimilar spots if their lives depended on it. They generalize and shoot from the hip. They're actually not well-traveled, they've just collected place names. They can tell you what they did, but not why they did it. As posters, they shoot their whole wad on one-liners and have zip credibility.
An example comes to mind: A gal at some obligatory affair a few weeks back was effusing about her trip to Paris where she's discovered a maarveelous cafe on a quaint back street where she felt a bit over-dressed in her finery. She carried on about this discovery of an unknown gem for more time than the law allows. Turns out it was frigging TwoMaggots for Pete's sake. I wandered off.
One the other hand, a few months back and pretty late at night, six or seven of us were sitting around a beat-up table behind a nice-enough hotel in Hobart. It was essentially the owner's hangout. Most of us had on jeans and boots or something similar. One gal was barefoot and wearing a cocktail dress, but she still fit in. All six inhabited continents were represented, conversation was switching among at least five languages without anyone needing much translation help (and we probably could've mustered that many more somehow), and as far as I can recall everybody had traveled extensively on at least five of the continents, most on all. Arguments/dissertations ranged from the most effective form of chimney pot to some obscure finding in geology. They sure weren't snobs and not one was boring.
"They sure weren't snobs".......really, sounds a tad pretentious to me.
I personally appreciate knowing how much travel experience someone has when they post an answer. Snobbily-phrased or not (and the relative snobbiness of any post is very much a matter of the reader's opinion, of their mood when reading that day, etc.) I like responses that tell me up front how much experience they are based on. I think, "Well, s/he might sound a bit poncy, but s/he's been there a zillion times, so s/he must know."
That differentiates answers based on long experience from those that might be based on one trip to Amsterdam, in the 90s, in college.
Obviously, someone can post an response based on one long-ago trip, and if that person doesn't say that's what they're basing their opinion on, you will never know... so I tend to be more trusting of information from the folks who modestly (and briefly) state their cred right up front. Or brag about it! At least I know they have cred. :-)
A snob is just someone with opinions/experiences that are different from your own that make you feel defensive.
What cracks me up about this forum is that one of the things I really like about the RS books is that his advice is opinionated, yet a few people on the board get furious over opinionated advice. I may not AGREE with his advice all the time, but I appreciate that he IS opinionated and states that. It's refreshing compared to most travel guides that give you dry, opinionated listings of places.
But then again, I'm a proud snob. Not the rich kind (I wish!) but in that I don't like crappy stuff (what I deem crappy is completely subjective, obviously) and enjoy not-crappy stuff. Call me a snob, it's not the first time, and I don't care, if it means I am getting what I have determined to be the best value for my travel dollar in terms of relaxation and beauty and fun.
Easy, Elaine.
The geology dude has a PhD from Rhodes (SA) and was explaining the field work he was doing.
The chimney pots lady is a professional photographer who was working on some kind of a commissioned compendium and knows enough about the relative thermodynamics in various climates to make your toes curl.
Just people talking about what they do to people who have no idea that such interests exist.
If we were all honest, we would admit that we have all been guilty at times of being a travel snob. That's not really the issue, I don't think. It's just another way of saying nobody is perfect.
One thing I continually struggle with are the mind-blowingly different ways people like to travel. We all have our preferences for how we like to do it, but that doesn't mean anyone else wants to do it that way. So I frequently read about others being excited about a trip I would never take, or doing it in a way I think is crazy. I try to stop myself from expecting them to conform to my travel preferences, but sometimes it's a challenge.
I don't know about anyone else here, but in my case, this is literally the only place I get to talk about travel. I probably don't spend five minutes a year talking about travel in my non-internet world - essentially for fear of sounding like a travel snob or sending the very false impression that we have money to burn. So in some small way, this is my release valve. If I get over-excited here occasionally, that's probably in part why.
And yes, I think travel does make you a better person. It may not make you a good person, but it makes you better than you would have been without it. And while it doesn't matter much where you go as long as you go, I do think it has a greater effect the farther you stray from your comfort zone.
Randy - love this:
"One thing I continually struggle with are the mind-blowingly different ways people like to travel. We all have our preferences for how we like to do it, but that doesn't mean anyone else wants to do it that way. So I frequently read about others being excited about a trip I would never take, or doing it in a way I think is crazy. I try to stop myself from expecting them to conform to my travel preferences, but sometimes it's a challenge."
YES. YES. YES.
I try to stop myself from expecting them to conform to my travel preferences, but sometimes it's a challenge.
I try to post by this philosophy above. I do sometimes see people answer questions with a completely different approach from what the OP asked for. Those posters come across to me as snobs, a kind of "do it my way or you're wrong" approach. But there can be a fine line of giving people contrary advice on things they may not realize isn't a good idea.
I also admit to being a "snob" on many things, travel, wine, food, etc... I like a certain level of quality or experience and am able, and willing to pay for it. But not everyone is willing or able so I do try to remember that.
I have mentioned how many times I have been to a place for good reason, to counteract a piece of advice or an opininon posted by someone else who had been there once! Example. I have been to Louvre many many times, a lady posted she had taken "everyones" advice on a forum and used the Carosuel entrance to avoid the long line at the Pyramid entrance. She said the line at the Caroseul entrance was so long it went right through the shopping mall and her and hubby left rather then waited.. I then posted that having been to Louvre many times, always in high season I had always used that entrance and never waited more then ten minutes and suggested that perhaps on that particular day there was somethink unique going on, since before and since ( verified by other posters ) there is never a long line at that place. I don't think thats snobby at all.
I'd say that sometimes the snobbery is inferred rather than implied. For example, I will sometimes preface a post about Venice by saying that I live near there or that I've probably been 60 or 70 times over the past 13 years that I've lived here. I realize that can come across as extremely arrogant or snobby to some people but the few times I've said something like that, it was merely to quantify that I probably know what I'm talking about.
Along the same lines, one of my pet peeves is when people who have been to Italy a few times on vacation act like they are experts on all things Italian and say stuff on here that I know to be untrue. In a case like that I may mention the fact that I've lived here for X amount of years to lend credence to the fact that they're giving out bad advice and here's proof.
It's a fine line and sometimes I have to watch what I say or how I say it but most of the time I say my piece and if someone is offended or thinks I'm bragging, that's their problem not mine.
theres like.....seven different issues going on in this thread right now.
traveling does not in any way make you sophisticated/better than anyone/more interesting, etc.
case in point: someone at work spent eleven days in italy, came back and summed up the entire trip in one sentence "it was cool i guess". a friend of mine went to a supermarket at the corner of his apartment and came back with a hysterical anecdotal story that had my laughing so hard my eyes teared. you either are an interesting person or you arent. travel doesnt change that at all.
you can send 10 people on the same exact trip and all ten do not come back changed into the same person. they are still ten individuals with their own individual personalities.
snobbery: stating how many times you have been somewhere is not a snob. that information is usually helpful. "oh this guy has been there ten times so i know his advice is based on experience". snobbery is those people who do the "i could not think of a fate more worse than not having seen THIS tourist attraction that i personally love! anyone who doesnt do their trip MY way is clearly doing europe wrong". im sorry, who the hell are you that your tastes and preferences are now the new gold standard to which everyone alive should live their lives, eh?
you know what else i hate? when someone asks a question and rather than answer it, someone just has to use that opportunity to insist they are wrong. "hey, how do i get to this place". "dear god, why on earth would you ever want to go there? anyone with an ounce of class knows that you should be going here instead, like i have ten times, see how first class i am?"
im going to cut that point short before i get mean(er).
continued:
different people like different things. i have a friend who is a comic book fanatic. he met a girl who loves comic books, he thinks she is the greatest. i think they are both (loveable) dorks.
the only way that your travel experience makes you a better person is if you use your experience to be kind and helpful to others. that goes for EVERYTHING in life.
also by the way, just because YOU find your travels interesting, doesnt mean that anyone else does. we are all posting on a travel message board so we all like travel. it stands to reason that anyone posting here, would find anyone we met in life who has traveled a lot, to be interesting. but that doesnt mean YOU are interesting to everyone alive. if you meet someone who has never had an interest in seeing the world, they will not care how many innkeepers in however many remote towns know you by name.
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