Seeking feedback on an England itinerary
In his Great Britain travel guide, Rick recommends an itinerary after arriving in London. I'd like to modify it a bit (no offense to Rick !), but wonder if there is a better way to make use of my time and resources. How feasible does this seem ?
London to Salisbury
Salisbury to Bath
Bath to to Oxford
Oxford to Stratford-upon-Avon
Stratford-upon-Avon to London
Thanks.
Bill from Florida
Largo, Florida USA 1/2/13
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I doubt Rick cares if you deviate from his itinerary. I suspect everyone does. He just gives a suggestion to start.
You don't say how long you are staying in each place so I'll put in my 2 pence. Others may have their own opinion.
Salisbury has a nice cathedral and you can also visit Old Sarum. It's basically worth a day. It does connect nicely with Stonehenge and Avebury. My wife and I were more impressed with Avebury. There is also a National Trust house there that was fun to tour. There are some other estates in the area if you are spending more time.
On the way to Bath, we enjoyed walking the gardens of Stourhead. The mansion itself didn't impress either of us but it was worth a walkthru.
Bath was ok but I wan't impressed with it the way the guidebooks seem to say you will be. The Roman Baths are not to be missed. The abbey church is good. After that, we did the tour which was interesting. I think it's worth one reasonably busy day. Going to Wells to tour that cathedral and hear evensong was a great extension.
I've never been to Oxford or Stratford-Upon-Avon. I do recommend you see Blenheim Palace which is just outside of Oxford on the way to SUA. If you haven't been to the Cotswolds before, I recommend you drive through some of the villages until you OD on the Cotswolds cuteness.
Is this by car? If so, Bath to Stratford to Oxford is a better route.
As above, how long will you have? If you have a car and enough time you can easily add diversions to say Highclere or one or two Gloucestershire villages into your plan, for example.
Oxford has enough to occupy a full day, so if you add Blenheim (& I recommend you do), that is an extra half day.
Thanks, Ken and Keith. I was vague about things becsuse I wanted to hear folks' experience, rather than channel their responses. Both of you gave me some helpful suggestions.
We spent a night in Bath (took a day trip to Stonehenge) and hubby and I really enjoyed it. We really had no expectations going in, other then to see the Roman Baths, the Cathedral and wander a bit - we really enjoyed it and wish we had more time. Next time in England, we'd prob go back for a few nights. We were really charmed by the town (not the traffic tho) and it may have helped that we had a beautiful sunny day.
Nicole brought up the tour. The Mad Max tour will go from Bath to Stonehenge, Avebury, Lacock and Castle Combe. We didn't take the tour but we visited all the sites except Castle Combe by car. I described Avebury and Stonehenge earlier but forgot Lacock. It's worth a stop. There is a house there to tour and the village approaches "Cotswold cute." If convenient, it's worth making a visit.
Here's some homework for you. A lot of these places have National Trust sites. You can get a short pass from the US to get free admission. Check into whether it makes sense for you. There were many NT sites in the Salisbury to Bath zone but not much in the Cotswolds.
As we arrived in Bath around 1pm and were leaving the next afternoon, we only had time for a tour to Stonehenge with no other stops...we used Scarper Tours...was really nice...an hour out, hour to look around and hour back....short and sweet...
One thing I'd like to do ( I think ) is go inside Stonehenge, which requires a reservation. Your opinions, if you feel like offering them: is it worth the extra time and expense ?
We enjoyed Bath for a day, took walking tour which was an hour and very interesting, I think it was free but can't remember, just that it starts and ends at the abbey. I really enjoyed the lovely town and church in Wells, we spent afternoon there after Stonehenge and were able to go inside to see choir rehearsal, wonderful.
There were many NT sites in the Salisbury to Bath zone but not much in the Cotswolds.
Hidcote Manor Garden - the first in the world with "rooms" and visited by people from around the world - fabulous
Snowshill - near Broadway and full of the most eclectic collections
Chastleton House
Hailes Abbey
The Fleece Inn
Lodge Park
Chedworth Roman Villa
Crickley Hill
... among others ...
Well, we didn't go inside Stonehenge...I guess it would depend on the cost. Honestly (like most things you build up in your head) it was a little underwhelming. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we saw it (even tho it was cold...and raining...welcome to England), but I don't think we'd ever bother to go back. I don't think it'd be worth a huge amnt more...you can see everything about it from the walkway. I may pay 5 pounds, but I certainly wouldn't pay more then that, but people have diff priorities.
Nigel is certainly correct that there are NT sites in the Cotswolds. There are many sites all over England and reciprocity exists with the Scottish version. I'm not sure if Wales has something similar. I probably should have said we weren't as interested in what we saw and read about in the NT book for the Cotswolds. Of course, we could have been trying to compare things to Blenheim Palace. That isn't NT and is on my "not to miss" recommendations.
Overall, the National Trust membership can be a great value. If I lived in England, I'd certainly have one year after year. I currently have a full year membership because I know I'll be there for enough time to justify the NT membership. For most tourists it's one more discount card to evaluate as to whether the short term passes available make sense financially for what they want to see in their limited visit. Some of the NT sites have really impressed us. Others, not so much.
Bill, I've not been inside the circle, but what puts me off is not the price but the hours when this available. I think if I was already paying to stay nearby I would not think the £15 (?) excessive for something I wanted to do. Perhaps one other potential issue is the vagaries of the weather. However if you do do this perhaps you could post your feedback on whether it was worth it.
Ken, NT covers Wales (& Ulster) so the reciprocal arrangement is only needed for NT Scotland. I agree membership can be wonderful value for anyone living or regularly visiting here. I'm afraid we let ours lapse when we realised that despite good intentions, we often kept putting off visits in favour of more humdrum daily tasks like repainting the kitchen. Better intentions for 2013!
Thanks again for all the good advice. I've read about the NT "short pass." I'll definitely look into it.
"Underwhelming" kind of like the Mona Lisa, maybe. :o)
Right now I'm looking for confirmation that there is:
(a) train service between Oxford and Stratford-Upon-Avon
(b) train service between Oxford and Moreton-in-Marsh
(c) private bus service between Moreton-in-Marsh and Stratford-Uopn-Avon
I plan to check the websites, but, since I'm not confident in my ability to read train schedules, I'll take confirmation from whatever source available. Thanks.
Bill: I went into Stonehedge many years ago when you could just walk in. My husband and I went back when you could just walk around the outside. I think that unless you are there for a special solar event...it may not be worth the extra time & expense to go in the middle. Go to Avebury...and walk thru the stones there.
Right now I'm looking for confirmation that there is:
(a) train service between Oxford and Stratford-Upon-Avon
yes there is. Chaneg at Leamington Spa or Warwick. Not fast or frequent between Leamington to Stratford.
(b) train service between Oxford and Moreton-in-Marsh
Yes, frequent.
(c) private bus service between Moreton-in-Marsh and Stratford-Uopn-Avon
What do you mean by private bus? There certainly are public ones.
Thanks, Nigel !
To clarify the third item, Rick mentions only Johnsons Coaches and Pulham & Sons Coaches in his guidebook. But, I may have gotten the wrong impression about what he says there. Any info you could pass on about getting from Moreton-in-Marsh to Stratford-upon-Avon would be most welcome.
I assume that National Rail provides train service -- am I right ? What public bus lines would I research ?
For local buses throughout Great Britain use traveline whose website is http://traveline.info/
Don't put spaces in town names. When you put in Stratford, you could put in and should in the detail step, Stratford-upon-Avon (and Moreton-in-Marsh) but on the first screen - when the whole country with area map is showing - you should only put in one word - Stratford or Moreton - for the town your trip will START in.
The website takes a couple of minutes to get used to but is very good.
Looks like a couple of different Johnsons coaches or the train.
Be aware that the train goes anything but directly between those two towns. From Stratford-upon-Avon the best route by train will likely be Stratford - Warwick - Leamington Spa - Banbury (change) - Oxford (change) - Moreton-in-Marsh in something over 2 hours; or Stratford-upon-Avon - Birmingham Moor Street (change) Worcester Shrub Hill (change) - Moreton-in-Marsh in about 3 and a half hours.
By bus, just over an hour.
National Rail does not provide the rail service. The services are provided by 25 private companies (and one nationalized one).
National Rail provides timetables and many other services.
The underlying system is very complicated and much like sausage making not for the squeamish. If you want to know more about what goes into the sausage, ask.
Nigel, you're passing on loads of valuable information. I should buy you a pint when I get there !
Meet you at my "Local".
Don't get put off by "Coaches". They are nothing more than a slightly zippier and perhaps a tad more comfy bus. The rural buses, as I remember from being a child in those parts, the coaches, were operated in the Cotswolds by companies like Black and White and Pullams, and Midland Red. Midland Red died a death many years ago, I don't know what happened to Black and White, and Pullams are still going all these years later. Johnsons - who run what are really nice looking coaches (always clean, modern and smart) are a relatively new addition to the Cotswolds. They are from Henley in Arden (the same Henley in Arden with the fabulous ice cream, set deep in what was the Forest of Arden in days of yore) just down the lane from Stratford-upon-Avon.
You won't find municipal buses in England - they are all private companies in competition with each other. Even the ubiquitous Red London Bus is broken up into various companies running different lines under rules set down by TfL - Transport for London, a quango (quasi non governmental organization).
Have a look at the Johnsons webpage for photos. Try it - you'll like it.
BTW - if you had decided to drive around the Cotswolds instead of public transport you could drive the 16 miles from Sheep Street in Stratford to the MarshMallow in Moreton in about half an hour.
Regarding Stonehenge, I don't recall anything exciting about it. We wandered around with our audioguide with a ton of other people. I don't remember the price, but it seemed expensive and crowded.
We did the private access tour of Stonehenge on an early July morning, 2005. It was fascinating to see the stones up close and to touch them. There were only two other people and the guard there with us. If you are intrigued by Stonehenge, pay the extra money for the private access - it's an entirely different experience than just walking around the circumference, fifty to two hundred feet away. Out there, the stones look "underwhelming." Up close, you have to wonder how people with no machinery could drag / float huge chunks from Wales, then get them upright. (We are not new-age hippies, just intrigued by what ancient people were able to accomplish many years before the pyramids were built.)