Language in Latin Quarter, Paris?
We will be in Paris for about 5 days. I speak 7 languages but French is my weakest. I am fluent in Spanish and Italian. Latin Quarter implies that maybe these languages are commonly spoken there (as in Latin Quarters in other cities). If this is the case, it would make it easy for me to get information about Paris when we first arrive. Is this the case or does "Latin" refer to some older version of French or maybe something about the Romans?
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The Latin Quarter is so-called because it's where the colleges were/are and, in olden days the classes were taught in Latin.
It's a barrio only in the literal translation, rather than in the common use, of the term.
Horrid French will work. English will work better. Chinese will work better than Spanish.
Disappointed but thanks.
Do you happen to know if there are parts of Paris where Italian, German or Spanish are common?
Unfortunately, no.
There are rather large areas where your Arabic, Vietnamese, or Chinese, would get a solid work-out; but I strongly suspect that folks speaking the other European languages are pretty well absorbed into the general population or are in very small enclaves. I've never come across any, but that doesn't mean I'm correct.
Paris is a world city and there is probably a neighborhood somewhere where they speak Mandarin, Cantonese, Vietnamese, Sinhalese, Arabic, Hindi. But Germans, Italians, are not "ghettoized" (I hope no one takes that as a perjoritive term) in that they will live whereever they choose to live and can afford. For better or worse, English is widely spoken and many establishments are owned by "foriegners" (Australians, Scottsmen, Kiwis, Japanese, etc). When I complimented the barman at a restaurant on his excellent English he replied "Yeh, it was my favorite language when I grew up in Bloomington, IL."
Funny stuff. I wonder if the bartender came across much French in Bloomington. Oh well, it sounds like I'll be ok with English. I speak a little French and am doing an elementary refresher course as fast as I can. My only Asian language is Japanese but maybe, with the great popularity of sushi, everywhere, I'll find a few of them.
It's the Latin Quarter, so everyone there speaks Latin. Just as they all speak French in the French Quarter of New Orleans.(Sorry, but I have been waiting a while to say that. Thanks for providing the opportunity. :)
Seriously, your knowledge of French should make it easier to read written materials and listen to Parisians talking with one another, but, at least in the tourist areas, most will address you in English even if you speak French to them.
Happy to have provided the opportunity for the comeback. If you count Latin, I actually speak 8, as I can fiddly fumble through it.
Ragbay uchmay? Ivinglay roofpay hattay educationay anday martsay areay otnay ynonymoussay.
I remember hearing two Spanish women try to communicate in Spanish to a Parisian waitress, but they soon had to switch to broken English. I found it ironic considering how much more similar French and Spanish are to each other than either is to English. But the number of French and Spaniards who study English dwarfs the number studying other Romance languages.
Ok, ownay hattay siay unnyfay!
Sorry, I never learned pig Latin.
"...there is probably a neighborhood somewhere...."
The 13th in Paris...that's Chinatown.
John, it sounds like you enjoy languages. I think it's great you're taking a refresher in French. For me, learning a little of the language spoken in the place I'm going to adds substantially to the enjoyment of the trip. The little Icelandic I learned before going to Iceland (and which I've since forgotten) was both fun and very much appreciated by the Icelanders. Have a great trip!
Actually Paris has two Chinese areas, one of which is mis-named based upon the actual residents.
One is in the 13th about at Tolbiac. It cropped up in the seventies with the influx of Southeast Asian refugees and is probably the largest. You'll hear more Vietnamese and Lao than anything else.
The other is the original one from about the turn of the previous century and is obviously older , but is smaller. It's located around Arts et Metiers in the 3rd. You can work on Cantonese and some Mandarin around there.
I guess being accosted in English depends on how well you speak French. I can remember, as a kid, being asked why I had American-style clothes, but that's about it.
Nope. A couple of years ago I was travelling with Legendary Bill (who speaks almost no French) and English was foisted on him. He replied in Mandarin. I picked up on it (we're both fluent) and drove the gal nuts. As a point of reference, this is the same clown who took off and held out his hat in a metro tunnel while leaning up against the wall. In very short order he'd collected enough coin to buy us a couple of beers.
I don't understand the various references to Chinese. As I said, the only Asian language I speak is Japanese.
Sometimes threads go off on a tangent, but basically it was because we were trying to tell you what we think or know is in Paris. It's up to you to decide if you can marry what's available with your capabilities (which, regretfully, probably nobody has looked up).
To recap: Arabic, Lao, Mandarin, Cantonese, Vietnamese, Khmer.
John,
"I am fluent in Spanish and Italian."
Complete fluency in Italian is something I also hope to master one day. I'm still plugging along with the lessons, and get to practice every year when I visit Italy.
It's very likely that you'll get some opportunities to practice at least one of your "strong" languages. Europeans are very clever with languages, and many locals I've met speak at least one other language (besides their home language). They frequently have to deal with travellers from other European countries, some of whom may not be entirely fluent in French or whatever the local language is.
I've found that I sometimes get a chance to practice Italian when patronizing Italian restaurants in various cities in Europe (including Paris). These are often run by Italians who prefer to live in other countries besides Italy.
On a trip a few years ago, I shared a rail compartment with a business traveller from Switzerland. He had been born in Spain, and was also fluent in 7 languages. I knew that he wasn't exaggerating, as he was constantly doing business on his mobile during the trip, while continuing to talk with me in English. When I asked him how difficult it was to keep switching languages, he said "I have to admit, it makes my head hurt sometimes".
The ability of others to learn multiple languages is something that never fails to amaze me!
Cheers!
If you want to go down to the small group level that Ken suggests, we can probably come up with any number of ideas.
Example: There's a couple of Italian brothers that run a Turkish kabob joint almost under the peripherique on the north side of town. If you're sophisticated, however, the area might give you an acute case of the willies.
Sorry, I missed where you stated you know Japanese.
As for German or seeing bilingual menus in German and French most often, go to the 10th arrond., specifically around Gare de l'Est.
You're best bet on running into hotel or restaurant staff who can speak German is there.
@ Ed...thanks for the info on the 3rd. Still, if it's Chinese food one wants, they're almost everywhere, maybe not so many in Clichy but I still saw them there too.
Hey in Spain , I had to speak french to the French waiter because neither my mate nor I spoke enough Spanish, and the waiters english was worse then my french,, so having ANY extra Europeon language can help no matter which country you are visiting there. Remeber that with the EU people can work in other countries so your clerk may speak another tongue other then the country you are in as their first langauge.
Since we've diverted onto the subject of ethnic areas:
One of the biggest Asian areas of Paris right now is up the Belleville hill in the 20th. The 3rd is reduced to a few restaurants (note the line for Pho) but is mostly a big wholesale area with shops run by Chinese immigrants, one wholesale handbag store after another.
The 13th became an Asian area because few French wanted to move into the highrise apartments that were built there in the 1970s, but the Asian refugees arriving after the Vietnam war were more than happy to make them home.
For Indian groceries and restaurants (Hindi, Bengali, other?) try Passage Brady in the 10th.
Latin was spoken in the Latin Quarter a couple hundred years ago when it was (and still is) the university area. The reality of life is that English is functionally the second language of the European Union. The last language you want to try using in Paris is German, they have not forgotten WWII. I would seriously recommend that you get Rick's guide book for France and read the sections that cover French history and the French people, it will be a big help understanding what is going on around you. I remember a clerk at a very busy ice cream shop saying to an American who was trying to order in halting French,"English, English, please speak English!" That being said, in more relaxed situations, the gesture of starting out even in fractured French will be appreciated and most likely followed by very passable English. A number of young people we met really wanted to practice their English.
Bets beat me to it I was wondering when someone was going to mention Belleville!!
John, I believe the Chinese references started coming up because you had mentioned finding ethnic enclaves. While European enclaves don't exist in Paris, there certainly ARE concentrations of Chinese in different pockets of the city.
For someone who's so sophisticated with your 7 languages and all (Lord knows I do well to mangle two, my own and that of the country I live in and speak to my husband in oh yes and that of my in-laws, which I'm learning, and the one I minored in in college, which I haven't used for years, and the bit I can speak from the country where I taught English in the early 1990s, as well as the two I "studied" in high school. I would never say I speak anything but English and French), I'm surprised you didn't know more about the history of the Latin Quarter, home of the Sorbonne. I would guess a quick Google or Wikipedia search would reveal what the "Latin" in Latin Quarter derives from.
It's pretty easy to get information about Paris in English, on your computer, at a library, or a bookstore, before ever leaving home.
Thanks All............a lot of good stuff here. Right now, at the suggestion of Rick Steves (been using him for 20+ years) I'm looking at staying in Rue Cler. Anybody have anything to say about it?
Hi Ken,
As I said initially, I speak 7 (8 if you count elementary Latin) so I have a lot of experience in learning them. I'm 70 and my brain is now a fossil but when I first moved to Spain (age 18), it was a sponge and soaked up everything. My learning method is this:
1. First learn to say: How do you say? And then other similar questions. Then point at everything and ask.
2. Carry a little note pad and whenever somebody answers the question, write it down.
3. Talk to everybody e.g. the busboy, the yard man, the taxi driver, the waitress, some guy fishing off a bridge, the street vendor, the cook etc..........constantly.
4. Associate new words with things/words that sound the same or remind you of them.
I have some others if you're interested...........the trick is to be young.
I have and worked in Spain, Germany and Italy so I'm accustomed to Europeans who speak multiple languages. I live in Texas and New Mexico where Spanish is common and have been speaking it daily for 50+ years. Latin Americans are always a little surprised, at first, because I look like a typical Gringo. But my accent is Andalusian (hick Spanish compared to Castilian) but it's European so they say I sound like a professor. I sometimes remind them that most people in Spain look like me (European).
There is no substitute for living in the country where the language is spoken but I recently came across (and bought for French) the best method I've ever found (after years of Berlitz and a host of others) and they have a good promotional price.
pimsleurapproach.com
You probably couldn't find a bigger English speaking area than Rue Cler. Or Rue Rick as some like to refer to it. I stayed there my first trip to Paris. I found it to be too quiet and too far from all but the Eiffel Tower. Yes, you can take the metro anywhere, but I like there to be places to go within walking distance. I've stayed in the Latin Quarter twice and much preferred it. I think that the 4th, 5th and 6th, the closer to the river the better, are the more central and interesting areas.
I agree with Andrea, Rue Cler would not be my first( or second) choice.. and thats after years of visiting Paris.. I honestly feel a first timer would do better in the 4th , 5th or 6th , which are more central with more transport options..
I will also add even RS knows there are many other great areas to stay in while in Paris, the one tour I took with him we stayed in the 14th, and my friend took a tour with RS too, they stayed in the 4th. RS can't feature everywhere in Paris so he has just picked a few to feature in his books
With that said, if you wish a quieter area, perhaps a tad more residential , if you avoid Rue Cler but stay in the 7th you may really enjoy that arrondissmont, many do.
Also, last note, many ask about staying on Rue Cler because they like the idea of a market street ,but there are market areas all over Paris, millions of Parisiens can't all fit on Rue Cler! lol
Does 4th, 5th 6th refer to something in Rick's book? I'm looking in his France 2013, beginning at page153, Sleeping in Paris. Rue Cler is the first listing. (7th arrondissement etc.) And I'm guessing that # 7th is what you'll are referring to. Is this right? I'm sure Rick explains it but I just got the book. What is an arrondissement (neighborhood I guess)? "if you avoid Rue Cler but stay in the 7th" This confuses me. Rue Cler is the 7th.
Yes! The market street part attracted me. I'm a foodie (http://geriatricgourmet.com/........my site) and while most like museums, cathedrals, ruins etc. first, my favorites are always markets and then the other stuff. I especially like fish and farmer's markets. These are probably in Rick's book but I didn't see them in the index. Can someone tell me where the best are and which of these arrondissmonts is closest to them? This is probably what will ultimately determine my choice.
Paris is divided into arrondissements, or districts. Rue Cler is in the 7th. I'm sure there is a map in your book that shows where each arrondissement is located. If you look at the river and locate the 2 islands in the middle of it, that is the center of Paris. Many places to sightsee are in that general area. Above the river is the right bank, where the 4th (Marais) is located. Below the river is the Left Bank, where the 5th (Latin Quarter) and 6th (St. Germaine) is located. Then see where the Eiffel Tower is. Rue Cler is close to that. It is not as central.
"Rue Cler is the 7th." No. Rue Cler is a street IN the 7th.
You can still go to Rue Cler if you feel you need to see it, but there are market streets everywhere. And most of the markets on Rue Cler are closed on Sundays.
Does 4th, 5th 6th refer to something in Rick's book? I'm looking in his France 2013, beginning at page153, Sleeping in Paris. Rue Cler is the first listing. (7th arrondissement etc.) And I'm guessing that # 7th is what you'll are referring to. Is this right? I'm sure Rick explains it but I just got the book. What is an arrondissement (neighborhood I guess)? "if you avoid Rue Cler but stay in the 7th" This confuses me. Rue Cler is the 7th.
Yes! The market street part attracted me. I'm a foodie (http://geriatricgourmet.com/........my site) and while most like museums, cathedrals, ruins etc. first, my favorites are always markets and then the other stuff. I especially like fish and farmer's markets. These are probably in Rick's book but I didn't see them in the index. Can someone tell me where the best are and which of these arrondissmonts is closest to them? This is probably what will ultimately determine my choice.
Does 4th, 5th 6th refer to something in Rick's book? I'm looking in his France 2013, beginning at page153, Sleeping in Paris. Rue Cler is the first listing. (7th arrondissement etc.) And I'm guessing that # 7th is what you'll are referring to. Is this right? I'm sure Rick explains it but I just got the book. What is an arrondissement (neighborhood I guess)? "if you avoid Rue Cler but stay in the 7th" This confuses me. Rue Cler is the 7th.
Yes! The market street part attracted me. I'm a foodie (http://geriatricgourmet.com/........my site) and while most like museums, cathedrals, ruins etc. first, my favorites are always markets and then the other stuff. I especially like fish and farmer's markets. These are probably in Rick's book but I didn't see them in the index. Can someone tell me where the best are and which of these arrondissmonts is closest to them? This is probably what will ultimately determine my choice.
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