Is the first arrondissenment safe at night and to travel to and from?
My daughter and I have planned out first trip to Paris. We just booked our hotel in the first arrondissenment, and then I read in a few travel books that the Les Halles area is not safe at night. And that there have been violent attacks on the RER at night, etc. This is our first trip there and of course we wanted to be in the heart of things. Does anyone know if this information is accurate or not?
Thank you. Margie
Margie
San Diego, CA USA 9/22/12
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Hogwash.
That's either badly outdated information or really old books.
Way back in the old days when Les Halles was a giant market, there'd be a brawl among some of the truckers in the wee hours every once in a while, but it was more something to watch for entertainment than something to be worried about. For the last gazillion years it's been as tame and quiet as can be.
Assuming that 'rer' means the entire rer/metro system, a few years back there were a few incidents near some of the easternmost rer stations. These were associated with other,greater disturbances and so far beyond where a tourist would go that they were not a factor to the traveling public. The female members of my family use the rer/metro alone at all hours without the least trepidation.
It's very safe, I have taken the Metro and walked by myself in Paris at night in that arrondissenment and others, and felt totally safe.
Must disagree here. Most of the 1st arrondissement is fine. When people say "Les Halles" however, they are talking about the area around les Halles shopping mall which is notorious for having dodgy types hanging round after dark when the shops are closed, and should be avoided then. But if you keep out of that specific and small area you'll be fine.
The underground Les Halles shopping mall has a few suburban hoods coming into town and hanging out there. It is where 2 RER lines cross. The whole mall is going to be re-done to try to attract a classier element. That said, we've never hesitated to walk around anywhere above ground in the 1st or in the mall. Thousands of people shop there daily. Furthermore, Les Halles is very animated until late at night. We're pretty up-to-date on what's happening in daily French life and don't know of "violent" attacks in the RER. In any case, you wouldn't be taking the RER way out into the suburbs at night. If anything, you'd take the metro inside Paris. Maybe Kim or Dina who are living there currently are more informed of violent attacks.
"Real Time Advice" vs. "back in the day banter"?
I guess 4 trips to Paris in 2012 are ancient history? Many of the people posting are people who visit Paris at least once a year and know the city very well. Ed, Bets, Kim, Dina, and Pat all know their stuff when it comes to Paris.
My perspective on what is "safe" might be skewed because I lived in a city somewhat notorious for crime for many years (Oakland holla!) but I haven't been to the center of any major European city, including Paris, that did not feel significantly safer than any major U.S. I've been to, particularly in terms of walking around in the evening. And the stats back that up, if by "safety" we're talking about potential for mugging and violent crime on tourists.
I've been to several areas described as "dodgy" by various guidebooks in Paris and Barcelona and thought they were totally fine. But the 1st isn't even considered dodgy in the slightest by most.
Loitering youths may get us old folks nervous, but the kids aren't inherently dangerous, their presence doesn't mean it's not safe to be somehwere as we understand the word 'safe'.
It sounds like you're going to have a great trip Margie, your guidebook sounds like it's hysterical and inaccurate and it's good thinking to ask real people to verify that info.
My goodness! Thank you all for your great response. This has been a childhood dream for me, and my daughter is making it happen. After what I had originally read, I did not want the trip to be dampened by any problems. You have calmed my nerves and helped me greatly.
I cannot thank you enough!
Margie, glad you've been convinced not to change your plans. In April we spent 2 nights in another "dodgy" part of Paris, near Place de Republique. At least the street our little hotel was on was pretty dodgy, and the hotel staff said the door must always be kept locked so that you need the key to get in and out 24 hours a day. And yes, down the street there were homeless people sleeping under scaffolding covered by cardboard boxes, but coming back to the hotel late at night we felt safer than if we were walking in any major US city late at night.
"At least the street our little hotel was on was pretty dodgy, and the hotel staff said the door must always be kept locked so that you need the key to get in and out 24 hours a day. And yes, down the street there were homeless people sleeping under scaffolding covered by cardboard boxes"
And you paid money for this "dream" vacation?
I'm not sure what the last comment was supposed to mean. It was the last 2 days of our month in France, being our 20th trip to France in 25 years and 10 times in Paris, so I didn't feel I needed to stay in Eurodisney or some other sterile place because everyone else does. How do I report this guy to the webmaster?
"so I didn't feel I needed to stay in Eurodisney or some other sterile place because everyone else does."
That's just downright mean to me! I'm reporting you to the webmaster as well.
http://www.ricksteves.com/about/contact_form.cfm?recipient=web
I've never seen any comments from James in Kentucky, so I assume he's someone new who posts to elicit a response; a "troll", as per Guideline No. 6: "Do not feed the trolls. Do not be a troll. A "troll" is someone who posts messages intended to infuriate you and elicit a response. Trolls "feed" on such responses. Ignoring trolls is the only solution."
So rather than feeding this troll, I think I'll simply stop reading this web site, unless someone can convince me otherwise. I started here early this year in the hope of getting good advice, and while I've found it interesting, about the only real good advice has come from sending P.M.'s to people who seem to know a but about a subject. But I've kept reading because I figured that my 30 years of European travel experience could be of benefit to someone who is just starting out traveling, so I try to provide info when I think I can be of help. I started traveling before Al Gore had invented the Internet and the cellphone was only a glimmer in Steve Job's eye, and there was no place like this to get advice. But I'm no longer willing to spend my time answering questions when people like James are allowed to be insulting on the site. Maybe people like Ed from Pensacola, who also clearly doesn't follow this site to get advice, since it sounds like he's been everywhere and done everything, never gets insulted or has thicker skin than I do. But I have better things to do than read this kind of drivel. I guess I'll have to stick to Tripadvisor and Flyertalk.
Robert, look under James' name and you will see that he has over 2000 and some posts here on this forum. He is not a newcomer. He is in fact a very valued poster with lots of good, inside information since he lived here in Europe until just recently. I have never seen him give information that was incorrect.
Ed is another poster whose travel advice I would follow without any kind of hesitation. The man does know what he is talking about.
Robert, I'd hate to see you go! I've been enjoying your posts very much, even of you are a "newbie" like me. I find your input really valuable and hope to pick your brain when I need info!
Margie can you maybe provide a little more information about the exact location of your hotel? I don't want to be discouraging, but if it is near Les Halles, it wouldn't be my first pick for a quiet vacation, let's say that. I wouldn't think it would be unsafe, but LOUD comes to mind as a distinct possibility. But then again the 1st arrondissement is more than Les Halles, so maybe you're elsewhere.
Thank you everyone for you help and response. And I'm sorry that any negativity came from my question. I was hoping to get an honest answer from either someone who lives there currently, or someone who travels there frequently, as it appears I have. We booked our hotel, then after my daughter read quite a few horrible reviews, she cancelled our reservations. Our new hotel is in the 10th arrondissenment.
HOTEL L'ANNEXE
4 rue Taylor
Does anyone have any information on this area?
Thank you again to everyone for their help.
Margie: My sister and I stayed at the Annexe last December and I urge you to find another hotel. It was the worst hotel we have ever stayed at in 25 or more years of 2 star hotels in Paris. The room was so small I had to edge my way sideways between my bed & the wall, a feat impossible for a fat person to have done. The shower was impossibly tiny ... once in you cannot turn around ... again if you are fat forget about even getting into the shower. Three jolly and polite homeless men, totally inoffensive but scarey at first, spent their nights close to the hotel door, so we passed and greeted them every morning, just to give you an idea about the hotel's location. And frankly, we paid far too much considering the total lack of service and with no front desk personnel. For that you have to go to the hotel next door. I remember remarking that if this had been our first trip to Paris I'd have been depressed beyond words.
Or Karen's find: Hotel du Loiret next to the Marais.
Well, Margie, seems like you'll need to keep looking! Norma's no alarmist and you should listen to her.
Go back through the pages on To the West, and read the multiple threads on Paris hotels. You'll find plenty to choose from. Just search for the hotel site, keep a running list of your favorites, narrow it down, and book one. Look at reviews first!
And to Robert in Portland, James is just, well, caustic. He often causes the more proper ladies to blush and fan themselves while declaring how bad he is. I'm not one of them.
Thanks to those who contacted me directly to mention James' past behavior and suggest I report him. Which I've done. So I won't discontinue reading this forum. It would be worth it if only to get Kim's advice on wine and hear Ed's stories.
Ralph, once again you're confusing the issue. You seem to care more about being right than giving accurate travel info. The original question was 'is this area safe'? Those of us who have been to Paris multiple times - and almost all of us within the year - said "yes" with the caveats that it is busy, filled with loitering kids in the underground mall, but safe? Yes.
Margie changed hotels because the hotel they were booked into had bad reviews.
As far as everything else, James can be caustic and annoying, and a little troll-y, and Ed and I have some strong disagreements, but both are guys who know their stuff and give generally good advice. Which is really what this forum should be about - not trying to one up people who have pointed out your bad, inaccurate advice in the past.
Margie,
When is your trip? My wife and I will be in Paris in 2 weeks and plan to spend 5 nights at Hotel du Loiret. We could let you know. It is RS recommended and our kind of place: small, clean, simple & in good location. Check it out in Tripadvisor.
Sounds like Sarah doesn't read comments very well. Ralph's comment here is quite reasonable and clearly an informed one, and my comments about Ed were that he is someone who knows his stuff. He may occasionally criticize people, but I've never seen any nastiness, and he seems to critique from experience. Whereas my one and only experience with James was very unpleasant, and he didn't even give any indication that he knew what he was talking about. And I'm really sorry that I even need to make this statement, since it's so far off from the original question. I think Margie has done what she thinks best, and won't regret it.
Marge,
First of all, I won't comment specifically on the Les Halles area as safe or not since I've no personal experience there. I always stay in the 10th at Gare du Nord since the late '80s and make it point to reserve there, gritty too on certain streets but safe if you know what you're doing. Better Gare du Nord than Gare de l'Est.
In Paris (other European cities I am well familiar with as well) are areas that look gritty, dodgy but still I consider them safe, most recently this summer's visit. You develope a feel for the neighborhood whether you're comfortable with it or not. The safety factor may include at what time at night you're going out, (if you're going to be out), such as going down the block or across the street to an internet cafe to use the phone at 22:00.
Well, I'm certainly glad to hear that nobody is going to pick up their ball and go home like they said they were going to do...that really warmed the cockles of my heart.
Margie: How do you keep picking these terrible hotels in shi_ _y neighborhoods? Are you aware of tripadvisor? At this point, you might just be better off in Rick's favorite neighborhood with one of his hotel recommendations. At least there you won't have to step over drunks, vomit, and other bodily discharges just to get to your hotel front door, while keeping one eye peeled over your shoulder so you don't get knocked in the head. Use tripadvisor, a guidebook, or some other source that has hotel recommendations and reviews.
I still think people are being a little alarmist about Paris in general. The Rue Cler is not a magical super safe clean neighborhood - in the Trip Reports section someone mentions being robbed at an ATM on Rue Cler. We also again need to distinguish "safety" from "petty theft". Safety is when your life and limb are at stake. Theft sucks, but you're not in danger unless it's a mugging, which is rare.
Paris is a big city. People not used to big cities might find it dirty, or take notice of the homeless people. That is an issue but has little to do with SAFETY. Safety has to do with muggings, rapes, murders, gun violence...all things that are not highly present in the parts of Paris tourists will be visiting.
True, but it's also true that there are a lot of seriously naïve people (I didn't realize how many until I started hanging out here) who seem to believe that they are safer walking around at 2 am anywhere in a big European city when they would never even attempt such a thing in any U.S. city. I'm pretty sure I can steer those people to a few neighborhoods not far from tourist areas in virtually every big European city that would not only make them feel anything but safe, but might also cause them to have to change their shorts when they get back to that quaint Parisian hotel. I don't care how seasoned and experienced they say they are, they're still naïve as hell. BTW, naivety is how you end up losing your $300 to four 12 year olds.
No way anyone could put it any better than Sarah just put it. Paris happens to have more visible homeless people than I've seen anywhere else in France, but it's nothing compared to much of the US, including small cities such as mine (population 65,000). I described the somewhat seedy street (at least at night) where my Paris hotel was on, and got criticized (or should I say insulted) for staying there, but I'd heartily recommend it to anyone, at least anyone who isn't afraid of cities). And so apparently would a lot of people on Trip Advisor, since it's gotten great reviews: http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g187147-d782463-Reviews-Hotel_du_Nord-Paris_Ile_de_France.html
The key here is not if you like big cities, not necessarily, but rather if big cities bother you when you come across seedy, gritty streets, more so in the area where your accomodations are located.
Gare du Nord has a range of hotels from 65 to 220 Euro for singles and admittedly has some seedy streets too, depends on one's relative perception,...so what. Does it matter? As an experienced traveler, (and I've stayed at Clichy too, felt safe but too far out), you have a feel for a place, gritty or not, and if you feel very comfortable with the language, even better, no problems.
One thing is certain on staying at Gare du Nord, more so at Gare de l'Est...very few Americans stay there relative to the numbers of other tourist nationalites, despite its obvious advantages in transportation conveniences.
A lot of flexing of street creds....
"Gritty" and "seedy" are the new "non-touristy."
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