non-tour types considering RS tour
My husband and I have never done a tour for all the usual reasons. However, we are considering the 7 days in Paris tour with RS as it is our first time in France and we do not speak French (tho we will learn conversational French before going in any event) and we want to see a lot with a minimum of hassle. Comments by others who are like us who have taken RS tours would be welcome! Our biggest concerns are the "herd" experience and "that one person" who just won't behave. ;.)
Kara
Albuquerque, NM USA 10/17/12
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It's funny, after coming off what was for me a fairly adventurous independent, multi-country trip on my own, I was discussing the concept of tours, and specifically the RS tours with my husband earlier tonight.
It's clearly there are benefits and drawbacks, and most people who have taken RS tours seem to love them, but it's also a self-ing group.
I am not someone who likes the idea of a tour because I hate the idea of being on a schedule, forced socialization, and being herded on a bus when there's something else I'd rather see/do. Sounds like my nightmare, so I'm biased. But independent travel can be stressful and planning it to avoid stress/mistakes is really time-consuming, so I do see the positives, plus the best value is having a really knowledgeable guide with all the history and cultural knowledge right there to share it with you.
All that said, I agree with James that for a city tour, especially in Paris, it doesn't make financial sense. Paris is a huge tourist destination, getting around without language skills is SO not a problem. I went to Paris on my own within a month of arriving in Europe for the first time and had a blast. For a multi-country trip, a tour might make more sense, but it's hard to justify the excessive cost (and no matter what RS says in his promotion videos or what people say here, there is no way you are getting a good deal for an RS city tour). For the knowledge, take a walking tour or several in Paris - there are even great "free" ones available through the Paris host program (url escapes me at the moment).
Paris is easy to navigate and has so many different things to do, I'd suggest researching the trip and find what interests YOU and doing that as opposed to a tour honestly.
Kara, I took the Paris tour on my own and would recommend it. Public transportation is used with the exception of a bus tour the first evening (on my tour). The guide provided a good orientation to the metro so if you chose to opt out of a group activity or wander about on your own on the free time, you had knowledge to get around. Since there would be the option to (for instance) leave the museum guided tour if you were museumed out, or to stay longer at a site that you enjoyed, the city tour may work for you.
Read the detailed itinerary to get a better idea of what exactly is included and how much free time you have, it may help with your decision. I have been on 4 RS tours and they work for me. There frequently has been more included by the guide, ie wine tasting in the hotel. The guides are very helpful for free time planning, Arranging the taxi or shuttle for your trip home, etc. Local guides were used for specific museums, so there was variety.
Paris is my favourite place to travel to. Have a great trip.
Looking closer at the itinerary of the Paris tour, and the cost breakdown provided by James (and I did my own), I'm actually kind of angry that this tour even exists. It's a terrible value. It's not as if this is great for seniors who need help getting around - you're taking the metro and RER and walking everywhere. Where is this supposed added value? Don't tell me tour guides, you could hire a private tour guide for 5.5 days and still not make up the cost differential of doing this trip independently versus this particular tour. It seriously makes me mad! There's no time-saving value, either. It just makes no sense.
Paris is not a cheap city, but with the budget for a couple of the RS Paris tour, you could do a serious, hardcore, expensive foodie trip to Paris, with $300 dinners every night at Michelin starred restaurants, and STILL come out ahead.
I'm really surprised so many people on this thread are suggesting she take this tour like it makes sense, given how many of you have gone to Paris as individuals. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but ... really folks? I know a lot of you know Paris very well and have to know this is a bad value, so it comes off as shilling in a way that seems suspicious to me, even if I know my fevered imaginings are probably unfounded. I just can't think of any other sensible reason for experienced travelers to push this specific tour, at all. Sorry.
"Angry" "Mad" :)
Sure it's cheaper to do it on your own, but the tour does have a convenience factor. There doing all the work for you. No sorting through hundreds of hotels on Trip Advisor. No need to figure out which museum pass works best. You're getting a knowledgeable guide who will lead you everywhere (even if it via public transport), no need to figure out which metro lines to take, no need to decipher city maps. Most evening meals are per-arranged. A lot of folks also like being in groups, and are willing to pay a premium for it. For some folks planning out a vacation is akin to root canal.
Even though you won't find me on any tour like this, it's not a crime against humanity to sell a city tour or spend your money on it.
Sure it's cheaper to do it on your own, but the tour does have a convenience factor. There doing all the work for you. No sorting through hundreds of hotels on Trip Advisor. No need to figure out which museum pass works best. You're getting a knowledgeable guide who will lead you everywhere (even if it via public transport), no need to figure out which metro lines to take, no need to decipher city maps.
Maybe I'm biased because I just did a trip that took a LOT of planning, but planning 7 days (or really 5.5 days) in one city in one hotel is pretty much the easiest thing in international travel. I'm not faulting the OP for looking into the tour - I can understand the apprehension of visiting a large city when you don't speak the language and it all seems overwhelming.
But this tour offers no value whatsoever unless you just want travel companions. And you're really paying several thousand dollars to have them.
It's not a "crime against humanity" to inquire about a tour, what I do find obnoxious and offensive is the idea that RS co. peddles a travel philosophy totally at odds with these kinds of tours, while attempting to sell the same people both at the same time. I spent a few hours browsing the Tours part of this website and listening to the hard sell in the videos and like I said, I agree that in some situations a tour makes sense, but really, a city tour in Paris is not one of them, and I feel like obviously tours are where EDTB makes its money and that's why they sell them so hard, and apparently a lot of "independent, experienced" travelers here have drunk the Kool-Aid to the point where they are recommending newbies spend twice what they need to for little to no extra value. It seems like fleecing and it really makes me think less of the RS brand, to be quite honest.
Let's all read the part of Kara's post about "others who are like us who have taken RS tours".
I agree, Sarah. I can understand the apprehension of first timers in a city where they don't speak the language, I really can. I have been them. But the cost on this particular tour just doesn't make sense. With multi-city tours, having the organizational details - accomodation, transportation, etc. - taken care of adds a lot of value to what you receive for the price. Even so, from what I have read of RS tours, you get a lot less for your money than on similarly sized tours from other companies that I have traveled with (at a lower cost).
For not much more than the single price of the Paris tour, I took a 13-day trip to China a few years ago which included my airfare from Chicago, three flights within China, all meals, all transportation and accomodation, all entrance fees to the places we visited. My luggage was picked up, transported, and delivered without my dragging them up multiple flights of stairs in some quaint hotel (we were in 5-star hotels). We didn't take public transportation, or do a lot of walking (we had bus transportation from the door of our hotel and back), and we only had 15 people on our tour.
To me, the RS philosophy empowers people to believe that they can do this themselves. To then turn around and try to sell them an overly expensive tour seems completely opposite of what I thought they stood for.
...a lot of "independent, experienced" travelers here have drunk the Kool-Aid to the point where they are recommending newbies spend twice what they need to for little to no extra value. It seems like fleecing and it really makes me think less of the RS brand, to be quite honest...
ETBD isn't fleecing anybody. Nowhere does Rick advertise that taking any of his tours is cheaper than independent travel. Selling a guided tour (regardless of the price) to one of the world's most popular destinations is not unethical, immoral or anything else in between. Value is in the eye of the beholder. If one is to drink the independent travel Kool-Aid, I guess we should never eat at a restaurant, go out to the movies, or attend a sporting event, and only shop at Aldis; after all it's infinitely cheaper to do it at home.
Sarah,
As I was one that replied to this Thread, I strongly disagree with your reference to those of us that promote the tours as "Shills". That's absolutely not the case! I tried to provide the OP with the best information and opinion based on my experiences both travelling solo and on six RS tours.
I've found that travel with a group is not so much "forced socializaton", but rather a different (and more pleasant) type of travel experience. Most of the people that take RS tours have a similar travel philosophy, so usually get along well. I could have easily visited all the places I've seen on RS tours, but it wouldn't have been as memorable or as much fun as it was with the group. I believe those who have travelled on RS tours will share that sentiment. Reading the Tour Reviews and looking at the Tour Scrapbooks will provide an idea on how much people enjoy the tours.
I haven't taken a city tour, but I suspect they'd provide a similar experience as the longer tours. I have no doubt that I'd learn more, have more fun and probably eat better while on a tour (that was certainly the case on the Sicily tour that I took in September).
RS tours have been using much nicer Hotels in the last few years. I just checked one of the Hotels they've used in Paris, and the rate for a standard double for six nights is ~€1300, which doesn't include breakfast (add ~€10 PP per day for breakfast). Given all that's included with the tour, including hotels, services of the lead Guide & local Guides, admissions, group meals and extras, I stand by my position that the price and value are reasonable.
Cheers!
Why do some people not get that although a tour may not be for them, that tours can be fun , and worth it , if not monetarily but in other ways. Fine, its not for you , but if you haven't taken a RS tour I really find it a bit obnoxious to have a very strong opinion of the RS tour experience. There is not "forced socailization" and we are not "herded" .
I have travelled for a few more decades then some very vocal posters on this thread, and I have only taken only one RS tour , but it was fun, it didn't seem like a forced march, and I enjoyed being able to relax and not worry about any details.. ( details I normally would spend months organizing and researching)
I do agree that PAris is a great city to do on ones own, and that langauge is a non issue, but if I had never been out of the states, and was a bit nervous, or just wanted the companionship of some like minded travellers, and the tips and knowledge from a good guide, then I see nothing wrong with someone choosing to do a city tour.
I went to school in France in 1968-69 and then travelled Europe of $5 per day.
We spent 5 days on our own in the 2eme arrondeisement apartment. Then we moved across town to the RS 7 days tour. I was trying to show the the value of the guides and the interaction among the people (no grumps). We really had two different experiences.
Ths RS week tour of Paris made him want to do Amsterdam and London with the RS book. Later we booked the RS 14- day tour of Ireland and then returned to Amsterdam. The trip in Ireland flew by despite the bad weather. Great felllow travels. Even had a guide dog
This summer we are going as a group of 3 to stay in Paris and do it the RS way. Later my husband and I join the GAS tour in 2013. Can't wait until our next tour - looking towards Eastern Europe/Adriatic in 2014.
You don't get the herd experience with just 28 or less people. It is not necessary to speak French on this tour. The restaurants are pretty good at recognizing the blue book. When I didn't know enough French to order what I wanted, I looked around to see who had it. They always graciously told me what to do or actually ordered it for me.
Whether you choose to take part in a city tour is your own business with its pros and cons. I've taken day tours of cities, never a multi-day a la Paris, 7 days. Some of them were: East Berlin (back in the commie days when the buildings, Schlösser, etc. were all black), Prague (in the commie days), Dresden, Potsdam (commie days, when it looked like history had stopped in 1945, and since then).
Some tours were better than others, depends. There was no feeling of "forced socialisation." If you want to keep to yourself, you have that chance and vice versa. Pace was acceptable. True, the convenience factor is part of it and you do cover a lot more ground in a overview. You determine whether the cost is worth the time span and the tour's itinerary sights, plus transportation.
I took the RS Villages and Vineyards of Eastern France tour in 2009. I was single then and wanted to visit France but didn't know the language and didn't want to travel alone. It was an incredible experience. Everything is planned for you so that you don't even have to think. I skipped some of the site seeing excursions and opted instead to spend a morning or afternoon alone shopping, or taking an extra nap. There is plenty of free time built into the schedule as well. I would say that overall it was a perfect blend of activities and meals with the group. I made friends with some people on the tour that I still see. They will be freinds forever. There was on obnoxious person and one complainer. The guides were great about buffering that for other tour members so it wasn't really a bother. It certainly didn't outweigh the pluses of the tour! It was truly incredible!
We just planned a tour for the Adriatic in 14 days for June. We will have a week before and a few days after the tour on our own. I think that is the perfect blend of time and socializing.
Cheers!
Actually, in his "ten commitments" promo video on the tour part of this site, RS DOES claim that the tours are better values than independent travel. "Best value and experience around" and "Money that an independent traveler would save can be quickly lost to time-consuming hotel and transportation hassles and inevitable mistakes. My goal for you is to end up more relaxed while enjoying a good 30% more in rewarding experiences per day."
So he IS claiming, that his tours are a better "value" - not necessarily in hard dollars, but in terms of time, "experiences" (how the hell does he quantify that percentage number? lol) and the "inevitable mistakes" (not very supportive of his independent travel philosophy!) that will cost money.
This isn't about being a tour person or not, it's about whether the Paris tour is a good value for the OP, or for ANYONE. I haven't seen one logical argument that begins to justify the cost of this tour for the value, except that people want to socialize with others while traveling (there are many ways to do so far cheaper - couchsurfing, paris greeters, expat events, etc).
Some tours make sense, this one doesn't, and I don't know why people are comparing completely different RS tours to this specific tour, which everyone responding to me knows can be done independently quite easily by beginning travelers who are able to invest a modest amount of research time at home for half the cost. So when people continue to push something that doesn't make sense, it looks bad and is disappointing and bad advice, imo.
but if I had never been out of the states
@Pat, you are out of the States, you're in a Province! And a beautiful one at that!!! LOL :)
I think Ken sums it up nicely. It's not just a matter of cost for some folks...value can be measured in lots of different ways...it's sort of a highly personal thing. And I don't believe there's some inherent conflict in offering/selling travelers information on how to travel independently and selling guided tours. After all, selling tours is ETBD's primary business, right? And there is value in his tours...why get offended and upset by all of this? I'm not a tour type of person, so it wouldn't make sense for me personally. I also know that I can (and did) tour Paris on my own for much less than the cost of a RS city tour. Saving money is extremely important to me, so, again, it wouldn't make sense for me personally. It may make complete sense, however, for others on a variety of different levels.
Rick runs 25 Paris City tours per year, that's about 500 people per year who disagree with you Sarah. Also before expenses, around a million dollars in revenue for ETBD. There is a demand in the marketplace, he like any good businessman, has determined what folks are willing to pay, and is providing a service. Hardly the scandal you're trying to create.
"Rick runs 25 Paris City tours per year, that's about 500 people per year who disagree with you Sarah."
There may be 500 people a year who go on the tour, but how do you know they disagree with Sarah? For all you know, they could all have thought it was a terrible value in the end. Just because they bought it doesn't tell you anything about whether they liked it (or thought it was worth the money).
My advice to Kara and anyone else considering taking a RS tour would be to read through the Trip Reviews. There are approximately 150 on the Paris trip alone from this year. Those are written by people who actually took the tour.
All 500 may have very well hated the tour. But the fact remains that they had the choice: tour or independent travel. Rick didn't hire armed thugs to force anyone to write a check for $2000. I assume most carefully weighed the options, expense, and other variables and came to a rational decision. ETBD ain't the only company selling guided tours of Paris; it's a big business. In fact a lot of the tours I see in Paris are other Europeans. Surely they know how easy and cheap it is to travel through Europe solo. Yet they value the convenience of someone else doing the hard work. It's their money, why stress out how how others want to spend it?
I have done tours, some very expensive and some not. I agree there is always someone who rocks the boat or gets lost on tours. Some cities maybe need a guide, easily done. I believe that Paris can easily be done on your own. Great transportation, can get anywhere on the metro or bus quickly. A lot of people in Paris speak english too. A bonjour can get you far. Some food for thought.
Happy Travels!
Such kvetching!!
How many people come on here who desperately want to skip lines, scared of transportation, worried about dealing with "locals", want to hire local guides, fearful of crowds at Versailles,nervous of getting lost, etc., etc.
Some people here love planning and doing it there way. Some people don't want to open guidebooks and want somebody to do it all for them. Maybe they don't like "Getting by (barely)".
There are different people in the world, and some of them would love that tour. Have you read the feedback?
No need to condemn.
Not everybody who plans their own trip has such a perfect trip either. Sometimes things can go wrong, such as on a Balkan trip, and not everybody wants to deal with the issues.
I don't go on guided tours but I certainly can see why people would like to go on the Paris tour.
(Day 1 starts at 3 pm and Day 7 ends at breakfast - so by my math it's not even a full 5.5 days.)
Minor point here, I know.
The way I think of it is to consider the usable part of a day to run from roughly 8am to 10pm. In that view, a 3pm start at the front of the tour plus breakfast on the last day gives about 1/2 day.
Susan- on the RS tour I took, of Istanbul, you had to sign a waiver agreeing that you wouldn't be grumpy! And nobody was.
YES, take this tour. I went on it for my first trip to Europe and learned about and grew to love Paris and have returned many times. It will take all the hassle out of seeing this great city for the first time. I traveled solo so it was a great option for me, though as a couple you have the support of another person but I've also seen plenty of confused or lost couples in Paris asking for directions! There is a little bit of the "herd" experience to be sure, (which kind of put me off also) but you just have to go with it. There are tour groups all over and groups of school children in all the museums, you will not be that unusual. ( and you have considerable free time to wander off and do what you want). As for someone not behaving, I have not experienced this on the 2 RS tours I have taken - most people seem to be pretty good sports, and I enjoyed being part of the group. Rick's tour guides are wonderful too! The tours are a bit pricey though still probably a good value. But if you follow his Paris guidebook religiously, and want to put in some effort, you can pretty much duplicate the tour.
There are some good points, in that there are a lot of new people who are considering trips to Europe who freak out over what are relatively minor things for whom a tour provides a great peace of mind. I get that. I guess that's not coming out in what I'm writing, but I do truly get that.
THAT SAID, once again, I know I am arguing primarily with a bunch of people who are extremely well-traveled people, most of whom know Paris well, and I am still really surprised people are continuing to suggest that Kara should take this tour or would find any value in it. And no one has really argued with me about the value of the tour - just that I "shouldn't judge" or whatever. I am judging - this tour is a bad value. I certainly don't judge the OP for asking about it, I'm just giving my opinion about it, the OP is a veteran European traveler who could have a fantastic time in Paris with a minimum of research time to the point where this tour is a bad value, in my opinion (obviously).
What I'm getting from this thread, which has nothing to do with the OP, is that a lot of people have taken tours and are defensive about it. Which is silly, because everyone can agree that tours can be great but traveling independently can be great, you have to weigh your own needs and budget with what a tour may offer you. But again, I think this tour is a bad deal on all fronts monetarily. For this specific RS Paris in 7 days tour.
I don't really see where the reviews factor into it. Most people who $4400 on something are going to review it favorably unless it completely sucked, it's basic psychology to justify a huge outlay of money in that way. What would be interesting is to quiz the satisfaction of people who took the tour versus people who did a similar trip independently in Paris for half the cost. Do you think they would not be effusive?
Thanks for that info Maggie!
I agree with you, Sarah; it's a terrible value monetarily, and people who go on it are paying a high price for convenience. I've recently looked into a trip planning service (and I'm comparing the costs because I assume one the biggest values is not having to plan your trip) that notes they can plan custom trips to France starting at $250 a day per person excluding airfare and meals, a far cry from the daily rate someone posted earlier, and much more personalized. I totally get what you're saying.
Sarah if a $2000 tour from Rick makes you "mad" and "angry",
I bet this $4000 seven-day photography tour of Paris will make your head explode!
....or how about this 9 day tour of Paris for $7000:
For anyone who is into tours, Rick's version seems like a pretty good value;)
We went on the RS Paris City Tour in May 2012. We had been on 3 do-it-yourself trips to Italy in the past 8 years, so its not like we were lacking confidence about our ability to handle a trip to Europe. As we both hit milestone birthdays this year, it seemed like a nice idea to treat ourselves to a Rick Steves tour. We were looking for a richer experience than could be accomplished on our own, given that we don't have a lot of vacation time.
The RS tour was a great experience. The orientation and assistance provided by our tour guide was very helpful, in that helped us understand what it means to be French. For example, we were advised about the level of politeness expected by French people; as a result, we had great experiences with our personal interactions. We usually had a group experience every morning, so there were times when we were part of a "herd." However, the afternoons were generally unstructured. The tour also provided additional local expert guides at various times (Louvre, Montmartre, Versailles).
Regarding the tour members, my belief is that in any random group you will find somebody you don't care to hang out with. It was nice to share experiences and tips, and fun to run into tour members in various parts of the city. Being part of this tour was something like going to adult "summer camp."
Overall, I believe that the extra cost of the RS tours (over doing the trip on our own) was well worth it. It is hard to know if we will ever get back to Paris - the memories from this trip will have a wonderful glow for a very long time.
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