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Also look at GoAhead tours... fairly reasonable and you can add on things you want, or if you want to be on your own you can opt out. I am not a 'tour person' but plan on using them for a photography group that we want logistics handled. (I live in Ann Arbor, so maybe at some point we can get a Michigan group going and I would be glad to help you) I am in and out of town alot so dates for me can be tricky. I also only ever take one bag as well as my personal bag with cameras/computer. I have it worked out so I always have a great outfit to wear (and I do car what I look like so I want fashionable and cute outfits to wear) If I were you, given your hesitation, I would take one of the more inexpensive tours that leave you freedom on some days, and then maybe add on a few days for yourselves on the end. Once you have learned a bit about the transportation, etc. you might be more comfortable on your own.

Also... don't get so overwhelmed that you give up on it. Traveling to Europe can be a life-changing experience, and lots of people do it every day...and make tons of mistakes and look foolish and live to tell about it!

Wow thanks to all who took the time to answer me, I appreciate every reply. You have all been very helpful. I'm sure I will be asking a LOT more questions....

Actually I have been to Europe, on a cruise in 1997. But there was such limited time in each city, I don't feel like I got to see much of anything. This time I am determined to make it a much better experience, hence the title of this thread. I DO feel sort of like a newbie, or novice traveller. I don't want to mess up or make mistakes, as it's a lot for me to do this. So I appreciate each and every tip and/or hint given.

This 'open jaw' plane ticket... never heard of it. Is that a different way of saying, or buying. two one-way tickets?

Thanks again for any and all replies... I sincerely appreciate them!

Judy... Open-Jaws means flying into one city and out of another and is definitely much cheaper than two separate one way tickets. Assume you fly out of DTW, so when you go to book with Delta, you go to Multi-city...not one way and not round trip, then put in the cities you want to go in and out of. I have flown to Germany a few times and typically fly in and out of Frankfurt (its a pretty good non-stop route) and since Frankfurt is kind of central to where I want to travel it works for me. I have also flown non-stop to Paris and out of Frankfurt. Just depends on where you want to go. Frankfurt is also a nice airport that is fairly well marked (compared to Paris) plus you could take one of Jo's walking tours and learn about her beloved Frankfurt!

Thanks Terry... Actually I live in Windsor Ontario but it auto-filled in my city as Westland. Close enough.... So I could be open to flying out of Toronto as well.

I am just loving all these tips!

Haaay, Jude (OK - go ahead and hit me!), I've never seen someone more perfect for a Rick Steves tour in my life! (no, I don't work for the company, own stock in it, etc.) Please click on the "Tours" tab at the top of this page and spend some time looking around, especially at the Tours Reviews and each tour's itinerary. Then, watch the (45 minute?) video (new for 2012) of The Tour Experience http://www.youtube.com/course?list=EC505CBF464260BE01 (actually, YouTube has them split into several little videos) (you can also get your own copy of this DVD For Free by asking for it!)

You could take a Best of Europe/My Way two-week tour for $6000, plus airfare. Just an option to consider...and some time to save up some more money!

It auto-filled you across an international border? Huh.

All right Eileen... so what (in your eyes) makes me so perfect for the RS tour???? I have been researching Germany, (OK, I have been Google mapping interesting areas, and zooming down to street view LOL) and have found a few places that I really want to see. I love Love LOVE interesting and old architecture such as the old walled villages, and the very pretty and picturesque towns in the south.

I will look at the videos that you suggested, thanks!!!

Yes Will I live in Ontario but my mom is in Westland MI. Most of my mail is directed there, and somewhere along the line I must have filled out a form with her address instead of mine. I guess it remembered my email, and just filled in her city instead.

How about Untours? Not an escorted place to place bus tour, but a carefully chosen apartment for a week, together with a car. In Germany, they offer a Castle "tour" with a one or two week stay in a real 14th century castle turned into vacation apartments in Bavaria, and a Rhine tour with an apartment in St. Goar, Bacharach or Oberwiesel. These run $850 to $950 per person per week. You could do one week in each place for $1800 each, so $3600 for both for two weeks. Of course meals are not e=included but you could choose where you want to eat, maybe make breakfast in and save your $$ for dining out.

This is a nice intermediate between completely independent travel planning and a fully-escorted tour. If the castle is well located you could drive to all the cute villages you want. They mention some on the website: Bamberg, Dinkelsbuhl, Garmish, Heidelberg, and some castles. And then have another week on the Rhine to visit those towns.

OK, you can see the castle (photos of the rooms, and location) at www.schloss-sommersdorf.de

It is near Ansbach and Rothenberg.

Judy:
Jerry&Stelly and others have given you excellent information. At this stage in your lives you're a perfect fit for a visit that is about just the two of you. Try to not look at the pre-departure planning as a chore, but rather as a part of the visit. By investing time in watching Rick Steves on PBS, reading Rick's Books, Eyewitness Travel Top 10, Rough Guides, etc. and looking at maps, you will be to certain areas almost automatically.

If you've traveled in Germany previously don't read this paragraph. If you haven't, get a Germany map (AAA or bookstore), a map of the Great Lakes region of the US or Michigan). Take the Great Lakes or Michigan map to FedEx/Kinkos and have it copied to the same scale as the Germany Map. With this you'll have an excellent tool for understanding distances and just how much intra Germany travel you want to do.

My wife and I have learned the biggest hassle when traveling is moving from one lodging place to another. I'd suggest you two major cities in Germany, stay in one hotel in each city, and take day-trips from those two cities. I'd suggest Munich be one; the second might be Berlin, Cologne, Hamburg, or other. You'll experience a lot of varying places and sleep in the same bed every night.

Also suggested by others: pack lite. My wife and I will be visiting Germany, Austria, the Czech Republic and Hungary over a 25 day period and we are each taking one carry-on bag. By the way we're quite a bit older than you, so don't think you're old.

Finally a huge advantage of planning your own visitis staying in small hotels/B&Bs (recommended on the Helpline) and eating where your hotel host recommends, you'll get a much better appreciation of Germany and her people than you'll get through the filter of a tour guide.

Jon, you might want to delete two of your three identical posts.

"so what (in your eyes) makes me so perfect for the RS tour????"

C'mon, Eileen! (I've always wanted to say that) Let's hear the sales pitch, because I'm not feeling it for Judy.

Hi Judy,

I'll throw my two cents in: I say to go with a tour for your first trip (although you said you did a cruise). It takes care of any worries you may have for the first time and you can just "sit back and relax." While there, you can learn about how to navigate the trains, etc for the next time you return. One thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet regarding tours is that they also come with tour guides who may offer a lot more in terms of learning about the history of the city/each landmark, etc that you visit. I have taken 3 Rick Steves tours and several times I have heard the "first-timers" mention that they felt they got way more than what they paid for due to the great information from the tour guides. It was also fun meeting people from around the country, but still having some free time during the day or at mealtime.

Another thing to consider: trying to do the same itinerary as a tour company, but cheaper on you own may be difficult since you have to spend more time/money on logistics (such as getting to/from the train station) whereas on the bus tour you don't have to do any of that - they just drop you off/pick you up and you're ready to go. The tours may seem really expensive, and there are probably ways you could save but for a first time, I say check out the regular and MY Way Rick Steve's tours. And the other companies too, of course.

Wow, I was kind of wordy, but you get the point. :). Enjoy, whatever you decide. :)

Judy, since you can fly out of Toronto you have good choices of airlines. Have you looked at Airtransat,, they do open jaw( called mulit destination).

As for RS tours, they are good, they are not cheap, but they do not nickel and dime you like some tours ( with their intial low cost but then you discover so many extras to be paid once there!).
I think the RS On your Own( or whatever they are called) are a good alternative too, cheaper then fully escorted but all the logistics of getting from place to place are covered for you.

Hi Pat... yes I have heard of Transat, but only about a week ago for the first time. Never heard of this open jaw deal until I posted my original question. When booking a plane ticket, would I ask for open jaw? Or is it called something else to the agents at the airline. Or maybe a travel agent or trip consolidator would be better for air tickets. There are so many options! I have already decided upon some 'must sees' so now I need to figure out the best way to see them all.

A car can be a PITA but you can stop for a picture or pee break whenever the mood strikes. Not so much on a train. Having said that, there's no chance of getting lost once on a train. I would have to figure out if there are trains going to the places I would like to see.

I also like the idea of staying somewhere for a few days and making day trips... No schlepping the luggage that way. That 'Untours' from a previous poster also looked interesting.

Another poster mentioned that this is the hard part... all the prep needed beforehand. But I don't consider this work... I dig all the plotting, and planning, and mapping, and reading, and talking to new people here, and all that. So this part is not like work to me. I always have to have something to obsess over!

I say you will regret it if you don't do it yourself. Dont do a tour, you can easily figure out public transportation.While people say "rail passes are not worth the money" I think Germany is one place where a German Rail Pass can sometimes be worth it and allow for a relaxed paced vacation without stress. We used a rail pass and traveled all over Germany and down to Salzburg. I think the planning is fun and you have control on what you want to doand who you want you spend time with. I love searching out small restaurants I have read about and having our own adventure. Don't worry about the language thing. Seriously - it's never been an issue. Have fun. We loved our German vacation.

Thanks bronwin, can you elaborate a little more on the German rail passes? A few of my must sees would include Oberammergau, and Rothenburg, and a Rhine river cruise. Plus I saw some very interesting castles and cathedrals that I would love to see.

If the trains don't run too close by, would a cab be an affordable option from the nearest train station?

Choose how many days you'll need train travel. So if you will be in Germany 7 days but only will be using train 5 of those days you buy a five day. Before you board the train you need to date that days pass to validate it for travel that day. How many days do you have for vacation?

we'll probably be there for 2 weeks, I have my own business and can take as much time off as I wish, and my husband gets 4 weeks a year.

A few thoughts. Judy is interested in the nice hotels on the Tauck tour. Couch surfing will not work for them. And they are too young for Road Scholar/ Elder Hostel. And RS does not have an all Germany tour.

What Judy needs is confidence that they can do this on their own. Germany is probably one of the easiest places to make that work. Driving is easy, if they want to, as long as they are not in the cities. The castle stay with Untours lookss great, actually I might look into that for our next trip. The location offer good daytrips in Bavaria and Franconia. Maybe combine a week there with city stays in Munich and Berlin?

Judy do you mean to take cabs/taxis to the actual sites?

Given Judy's responses I'm also starting to think she might be better off with a budget tour (which the Rick Steves tours are NOT guys, seriously, ok?) But I will agree with the recent posts that if you are going to try to do it yourself, Germany is probably the easiest place to travel independently without a car in Western Europe. Here's why:

-The German Rail pass. Provides transportation on any train (other than local U-Bahn and bus transit within cities) on any day you choose to use within a one month period. You can have anywhere from 3 to 10 travel days within that period. It's super easy, you just buy your pass online at home, they ship it to you very quickly (I think my mom got hers delivered in California in about a week and a half), and when you get to Germany you go to a train station's travel center (Reisezentrum) and have the pass validated at the counter. After that, you just fill in your travel days on the day you're traveling and show the pass to the conductor. It literally doesn't get any easier. No hidden fees or mandatory reservations to worry about. If you want, you can also purchase seat reservations at 4 euro per person, either online with a credit card, or at the station at an automated machine or at a ticket counter. But it's not necessary, some people like to for peace of mind so you know you can sit with your travel partner and not worry about the train being full.

-Almost everyone in Germany speaks English, particularly in the cities and towns that get tourists (which would be everywhere you'd be going most likely)
Based on my experience living and traveling in Germany for 2 years, I'd say that 3 in 4 people I encounter as a tourist and in my everyday life can speak good English and are happy to do so.

Cont.

-Germany is well-marked and well organized. Meaning finding your way as an independent traveler is easy because Germans excel at signage, directions, and that sort of thing. Important info is either in English as well or in a pictograph that makes it easy (such as a picture of a train with an arrow to point you towards the train platform). Announcements for trains to places tourists are likely to go to will often be announced in English as well as German (but if in doubt you can also ask almost anyone, "What did that say?" if you don't understand an announcement.

So if you do decide to go the independent route, I'd get a German Rail Pass, use bahn.com to see train distances between places you want to see, and create an itinerary that works for you. When it comes to hotels, it's probably best to get a hotel somewhere between the train station and the old city of where you want to visit, and just go ahead and take a taxi from the train station to your hotel. It will rarely be more than 10 euro, the taxi driver will handle your luggage, and you'll get to relax and you're still saving a ton of money compared to a tour.

Booking.com is a great resource for finding hotels here, as are Rick Steves' recommendations if you dont' mind paying a little more. If you go with a hotel that has a user rating of above 8, you will certainly be satisifed.

All that said, you have to be willing to do the research (and enjoy it!) and accept that no matter what, some mistakes will probably be made. Research and paying attention will ensure they will be small ones (and with a German rail pass, getting on the wrong train just means you get off and get on the next train back, you won't be out any money for your mistake).

But if doing the research sounds like a chore, just go with an inexpensive tour instead.

@ Pat: Yes I meant to take a taxi to the actual site. Are they plentiful? I have been to Chicago a few times, and there are zillions of cabs everywhere you look. I am picturing in my mind, a train station that is still miles from the site or town I would like to visit for the day, and having to carry luggage to find a taxi, then driving a fair length of time ($$) to get to my desired destination. Then, what to do w/ the luggage? Certainly can't leave it in the cab.... Then cabbing it back to the train station. Unless it's a day trip from my hotel. Then no luggage worries. :)

Maybe I have it all wrong in my mind....

But I must say, I am liking the enthusiasm I am finding on this board.... everyone so willing to help, and no sarcasm. Nice. I am thinking that in order to see exactly what I want to see, going out on my own may be the way to go. Another poster said what I really need is confidence. That is true. I am actually quite bright, but very unsure of myself.

So maybe I'll get a map and mark all the spots I want to see. Connect some dots, and see what can and can't be done. I am very excited about this and I hate to have to wait so long!

Timewise: You seem to have the flexibility to be gone 15 days or 22. Do not yet make a decision as to how long your trip will be (i.e. "2 weeks"). Also do not pre-decide that your trip will start on a Friday or Sat, if you do have that flexibility. Leaving mid-week or on a Sunday is often cheaper and your itinerary may work out best accordingly (see points 5 & 6 below).

So here's my advice regarding time, in relation to your itinerary:

1. Do not count a travel day as a sightseeing day in planning out your "must-sees". You will get to sightsee on your travel days, but don't make it the only chance that you would get to visit a site - you may be sorely disappointed if you do.

2. Work your itinerary without back-tracking or too much zigzagging, if you can help it.

3. Geographically cluster your "must-sees": choose a home base and plan day trips if you need to. Use the train routing/scheduling tools at bahn to help with that. If you think that a car would be a real asset for 2-3 days, or a week or so, then rent one for just that cluster(s).

4. Don't cram too much in for each day. Bus tours can, but independent travelers less so. The tour bus itself is the reason that they can, combined with the very limited time that they allocate to "see" and "visit" sites. You will not be having the same experience at all - hence the absolute need to not over-plan each day... you will want time to wander those pretty pedestrians streets, window shop, or just sit and enjoy the strudel ;-)

Cont'd next post...

cont'd

5. Make a sort of schedule of where you want to go and how long you want to be in each place (the map work that you are doing now will lead you to your "clusters" and to this next step). Factor in the travel days. Then see how many days you'll need. If your trip works out to 18 days, then budget for 18 days! :-)
Don't short-change yourself, timewise, if you can get away with it.

6. Pay close attention to closure days - many sites are not open everyday of the week. If a site you really want to see is closed, when you'd like to include it in your itinerary, then just shift your itinerary sideways by a day or two.

Once you've figured out how many days that you will actually need, THEN you can start seriously fleshing out your itinerary. Don't be shy posting each version of your itinerary here... lots of opinions and good info will be provided to you on that score, LOL!

Regarding airfare from Toronto to Germany:

Transat will not be the better choice. It is for France, Italy, Ireland, etc. - but not for Germany. Lufthansa is, by far, a much better bet for Germany and will enable you to most effectively build an open-jaw itinerary.

There's talk that Air Berlin may start flying into YYZ (they only do Vancouver for now), so keep an eye out for that - because if they do launch service for this summer, there should be some very attractive fares offered initially. IMO, if by March at the latest they do not officially announce it, then they will not be flying out of Toronto for 2013...

Lufthansa codeshares with Air Canada, so the identical ticket from either airlines will use a combination of Air Canada and Lufthansa planes. HOWEVER, the Lufthansa ticket often is a couple of hundred dollars cheaper than with AC, for the exact same flights (on the exact same AC planes out of Toronto) on the exact same dates! In addition, when you book directly on the Lufthansa website, that website price rarely can be outdone by a consolidator/wholesaler fare. You can get your AC Aeroplan points credited on all Lufthansa flights.

Go sign up now for the Lufthansa e-mails and shop for your flights on their website directly, as your planning progresses. Ditto for Air Berlin.

Good luck and have fun!

If you are coming in from Toronto, you can also fly with Air Canada. I just flew with them this past Oct. and we were very happy with our seats, the food, and the movies. It is only 8+ hours from Toronto to Frankfurt.

Have a look at some guide books. The RS ones often have maps of the central cities. See where the train stations are located. Right smack dab in the middle of the city. Hotels are always located around these areas too. You get off your train and either walk about 5 min. to your hotel, or walk 5 min. to the taxi stands if your hotel is just a bit farther away. Once you are at your hotel, using public transportation is also very, very easy and cheap. You will probably stop using taxis as riding the trams, buses and subways are more fun.

Many of your worries are because you haven't been able to see just what is involved with traveling around on your own in Germany. This is where sitting down with a RS guide book can set your mind at ease. It isn't difficult, and some of your ideas about train travel, where train stations are, and where tourist sites are located will automatically change, once you find out the reality. Many tourist sites are also located in city centers, so you don't have to spend a fortune on taxis either. The train system through-out the country can pretty much get you where you want to go, and without stress.