questionable trafffic ticket from Arezzo
I received a ticket from the Polizia Municpale (Commune di Arezzo) by European Municipality Outsourcing via unregistered mail for the following infraction: ART.7 C 1/14A - The vehicle crossed a limited hours area outside of authorized hours. They give the time and date which coincide with when I was in Arezzo. I never received any notification before this notice, such as ticket on the window, etc. To me this ticket appears fraudulent, is there any way to find out if it is valid. It appears to be like some of the tickets other travelers have received on this helpline that are fraudulent. It also appears that Avis forwarded my name, but so far no sign they have my credit card or have charged to it. Any ideas on this would be appreciated. Thanks
Harlan
marysville, wa 12/1/07
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European Municipality Outsourcing is a private Italian firm, a subsidiary of a credit firm, that handles tickets for police in almost every province in Italy...those tickets issued to people from outside the local province. See their website at http://www.emo.nivi.it. That's why Avis forwarded your name....they probably got the original infraction notice from the police. Sounds like you were caught on a traffic camera entering one of the residents-only restricted area in central Arezzo, something becoming more and more common in Italian cities.
Norm, I can accept that an infraction may have taken place, but the way it was sent in the mail leaves me suspicious. The letter mentions that I am required to respond within 20 days of receiving it in the mail, but the letter is standard mail, with no certification, registered mail, return receipt of delivery to sender etc. If this is a legal document, dont they have to have proof that I received it. This raises the question what if the mail did lose it and I never received it?
thanks for the reply
Check their website....They probably figure it's not worth the expense to send if off by registered mail.
Thanks, I'll be looking at it further.
Harlan...you may also want to e-mail a question to the nearest Italian consulate to check on the company's bona fides.
This isn't the first time, this type of ticket has been discussed on this site. I believe that Arezzo is one of many towns that have restrictions on where you can park and at what times. They don't ticket you, they take a picture of the license plate. It then takes time for them to track you down. Florence also does this. If you had a rental car in Arezzo at that time, this may be legitimate.
Harlan, it sounds like the Italian (& other Europeans) are using a "clearing house" (Municipality Outsourcing) to process tickets for out-of-country visitors.
I suspect the ticket is valid, especially as it coincides with the time you were in that jurisdiction. However, perhaps they're deliberately targeting people who might not be familiar with the language, parking signs and local regulations (ie:tourists)?
All car rental agreements include a clause stating that the renter agrees to pay any traffic fines or related charges. By signing the rental contract you are agreeing to these charges being added to your credit card if necessary.
Whether there would be any repercussions in not paying the ticket, I'm not sure? Although I've rented cars in the UK & France, this is one reason I prefer to use rail or coach whenever possible!
Good luck!
Ken, Thanks for the reply. Yes, it appears I'll have to pay, especially if I go back to Italy or any other country that could potentially keep track of this infraction. With modern computer and database systems this type of thing could be tracked indefinitely.
Harlan, I have to wonder if this isn't a bit of a "trap" to take advantage of tourists, who won't be too familiar with the local parking regulations, etc. (especially given the language difference)?
In any case, since the ticket coincided with the time you were in Arezzo, I suspect it's legitimate. As you mentioned, with modern computer technology they might keep track of these and eventually be able to target repeat visitors. Given the ease with which I can use my North American ATM and credit cards in Europe, perhaps this will be happening soon?
I had a similar experience in Italy, although not with a car. I purchased a train reservation (can't remember which, but might have been Venice to Florence?). I'm sure I boarded the correct train, but apparently the travel agency sold me the wrong reservation for that train. When the Inspector checked, he apologetically said it was incorrect and nicked me with a fine on the spot! One of those interesting experiences I won't forget!
It maybe a setup, although legal, I showed it to some coworkers that hail from Italy and they confirmed this has happened to them, but because they were there at the time, they knew what to do to get it reduced. Unless I travel back to Italy, I assume not much can be done from this end. Funny you should mention trains, we traveled approx. 5 times on Trenitalia with purchased and validated tickets. The conductor collected them on only one of the trips. I guess the same could apply to my infraction. They have the technology to go after me, but may simply not use it .
well i got a 92 EUR 25 for the same thing; being in arezzo on aug 01, - yes i was there at that time,noon, entering apparently a restricted area, looking for a parking (next to the post office); somebody told me to get out; i did; I barely stayed more than Five minues in that restricted area !
did you pay your fine?
thanks for any comment ` marcel
Harlan,
Rick had a warning about this in one of his travel bulletins. Apparently the enforcement in the "restricted zones" is getting much more stringent.
I'd have to do some checking to find the bulletin again. It's current information, so shouldn't be hard to find.
Good luck!
There is information on aspects of this subject here: http://www.bella-toscana.com/traffic_violations_italy.htm
If it DID NOT ARRIVE CERTIFIED OR REGISTERED, toss it! ( I would frame it, or put it in my trip scrapbook.)
Italy does the same thing that we do........if there was no proof that you were served, there can be no fine/charge that can be supported.
No one will throw you in jail the next time you go back!
(If you had used Hertz they would bill you for your "notice"...that is why we don't use them.)
Toscoman and Steve, Thanks for the added responses. Since there is a chance I may have to travel to Italy on Business, jeopordizing future readmittance into Italy with regards to this situation does not seem wise. Yes, I think the use of traffic cameras en mass to ticket drivers and especially unsuspecting tourists is underhanded when local municipalities receive a large amount of revenue from the transactions they make. Fining an errant driver should be meant to correct the errant behavior. Simply sending out an infraction months later does nothing to ensure the laws are being followed during the visit. As a guest in another country I would want to know in a timely manner that I had done something wrong. Late delvered fines do nothing but pad the local township coffers, I already helped out the local townships financially as a tourist.
We just recieved a similar ticket supposedly from Florence. However, given that it arrived in what can ordinarily be considered a bulk mail envelope (not registered or marked in any way) and that we were in Florence six months ago yet just received the ticket, we are likely to ignore it. Use common sense, if it smells weird, ask someone or ignore it.
I received a ticket for the same infraction in Arezzo when there last April. I am going to pay it but can't find out where to do it on the website. All I can link to at www.emo.nivi.it are all the comments from people in the same situation. I tried e- mailing the company but as yet have no reply. Did anyone else have the same problem?
Lynn Vernon B.C. 01/30/08
No one likes receiving a ticket. The cameras have no idea who are tourists and this isn't something that is targeting tourists. If you are going to drive in a foreign country it is your responsibility to know the rules and follow the signs.
Has anyone Had any luck with challenging these supposed fines? Just recieved 2 at 92 Euro's Each for Article 7C 9e 14 and 7c1ae14 what ever that means.
Love it...go to http://www.emo.nivi.it and look at the picture on their home page...a beautiful scene of Florence!
I recieved an the original in Dec/07 and ignored it, they have now sent a second copy by registered mail. I was in Florence and my Hotel was in the restricted area so i thought it was ok to drop car off at Hotel.
There is a dispute form you can send by registered mail but i think i will just pay the $95.90 euro's.
I recieved two of these tickets just today from my travel in florence last summer. I saw no indication I was driving where I should not be driving at the time. at 92 euro each this is only the latest insult months after returning from there. Last winter it was an automated toll booth which malfunctioned and sent me a $50 fine. I cancelled my credit card used with the rental agency and I don't plan to go back to italy. I will never pay this scam fine. I'm finished with that country. They have too many tourists anyway apparently and there is a whole world -not to mention the western U.S. - to explore.
For what it is worth and not vouching for the accuracy of the info, it is at least interesting: http://www.bella-toscana.com/traffic_violations_italy.htm
Hey Harlan and all- help, I am in the same fix suddenly.Recived said notice from emo.it Noticed a new charge from Hertz on my credit card AND WONDERED WHAT IT WAS. Now it see from these notes that is it a service charge from Hertz . In addition Arezzo is trying to collect 103 euros; that is a lot of usd money for a violation I didnt notice I was making. Called Hertz and they offered no assistance. It is nine months after I was there. did you find an agency that would help you reach resolution?
Hertz charging you a fee to process the ticket, basically having to answer the police notification and provide personal data in order to send you the ticket, fits with information I have heard. What did they charge you? I have heard anything from 14 Euro to 40 Euro to provide the info. I suppose if you stayed overnight within the zone (in town) you could get a letter from the hotel stating such and try and send that, implying that a mistake has been made, they just are not seeing the original notification...but EMO appears to be only the collection agency, not a court of appleals.
I too just recieved notice of an infraction in Arezzo for crossing into a traffic area outside of authorized hours and they want 103 euros for the fine within 20 days. I called the number on the letter and the man said you can appeal only if you were returning a rental car or were staying in a local hotel. I was lost and trying to get turned around. Any new ideas of what course to take???
I think by now we all realize that if you drive in a restricted zone you will get a ticket. It has nothing to do with being a tourist, it has to do with trying to get people NOT to drive into historic areas that need to be protected and are also probably filled with people. Mary--you were driving in an area where you were not permitted to drive and no doubt you didn't see the signs. It is a risk you take when you decide to drive in a foreign country. Italians get these tickets too, just like you get a ticket for commiting a traffic violation in the US. Therefore, do as I would do if I got a traffic ticket in your town---pay up.
After investigation, 2007. I believe the majority of these fines are fake. Go to the correct site for paying Italian fines which was given to us by Avis Rental Cars Australia. https://ztl.come.fi.it/tzv/Login.jsp put in your fine number and see whether it is rejected or not. The Australian Police advised us not to pay, they recorded the fine as a suspected fraud and said, that even if it was a real fine, the fact that it was recorded as a suspected fraud, the Italian Police would not be able to take action. The Australian Police also, stated: The warnings are there; you never pay into an overseas bank account that is unknown to you.
Scanning our fine,sending to Italian Police they told us not to pay, untill we received a valid fine number, when putting the fine number into https://ztl.come.fi.it/tzv/Login.jsp the number came up as invalid. Avis Australia also, said, don't pay, and sent a copy of what the fine should look like, it looked very different. Contact your car company.
The Australian Police are a bunch of dorks - that's been known for a long time. They can invalidate a fine issued from Italy - amazing. If the notice comes from a Comune or from EMO, it's real. How could a scammer know where you were driving months ago in Italy and then find your address to send you a letter? The correct URL for tickets due for infractions IN FLORENCE is https://ztl.comune.fi.it/tzv/Login.jsp ZTL refers to the limited traffic zone of Florence, 'comune fi' is the municipality of Florence. Obviously you won't be able to view photos of yourself breaking the law in Arezzo using the Florence web site. Refer to http://www.bella-toscana.com/traffic_violations_italy.htm for some idea of how all this works. The first letter will be unregistered and if you pay or dispute that, it costs a lot less than when the registered letter arrives.
For those that criticize people who question whether some of these cameras might target tourist you've missed an important fact contained in many of these posts - some are staying in hotels that are in restricted zones. As such they are permitted access to the hotels as "residents".
It appears that the authorities spend no time investigating whether or not someone with a legal right to proceed has been photographed. They merely compare a license plate to a list of residents and send out a citation.
For those that say do what you would in the States and pay, I say find me a a similarly shoddy legal process in the states and I'll comply.
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