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Mine drove us to Lale's house over in Asia. (Lale is the co-author of the Rick Steves' Istanbul book.)

On the way, Mine explained to us that it is a tradition in Turkey to bring flowers to the hostess and sweets to the host when you are invited to someone's home for dinner. We picked up a pot of red flowers and some baklava. It was very cool to observe suburban Turkish life as we drove in the neighborhoods and stopped at these stores.

Lale lives in a beautiful housing complex. Land is in high demand all over Istanbul, so even well-off people in the suburbs like Lale live in apartments. We met her sweet mother — who didn't speak any English — but with her smile, cheek kisses and Turkish words, she still made us feel incredibly welcome.

Lale and her mother must have been cooking all day for us, because they had laid out a beautiful Turkish feast: shepherd's salad (cucumbers, tomatoes and onions), sultan's rice (chicken, apricots, nuts and a kind of fried rice), cheese pastry, vegetable pastry, meatballs and pinto beans. For dessert we ate the baklava we brought and a wide variety of fresh fruit.

While we ate, Jules, Isabelle and I grilled Lale and Mine with questions. We were curious about many things including the Turkish school system, political parties in power, Armenian issues, wearing headdresses at universities, Turkey joining the European Union, the Turkish economy, subjects they had studied and places they had traveled.

I will recount bits I found interesting:

They like Obama, but they find one fault with him, that he wants to call what happened to the Armenians in Turkey during World War I genocide. Lale and Mine call it a civil war. They say the Armenians allied with Russia and attacked the Turks because Russia promised to give them their own territory. They say people on both sides died and even many Armenians would agree that it was not genocide. They say that the Armenians have closed their archives to cover up the facts which illustrate it was a “war” not “genocide.” They say Obama is too much of a populist and just wants the Armenian vote in the States. I don't know what to think about this. My first inclination is to side with the victims, the Armenians. But Lale and Mine were very convincing that everyone, even Armenians in Turkey, believe it was not genocide.

Turkey is unlike the US in that its public schools are generally better than its private schools. Great educations are not bought; they must be earned. Both of Lale's parents came from very modest backgrounds. Her mother could only dream of being a midwife. Now Lale's mom has her Ph.D. in economics and is a well-paid banker. Her father could only dream of becoming an imam (Muslim prayer leader). Now he is a lawyer. So if you work very hard, the Turkish system allows you to become a great success. Of course, there are still those blessed with educated and supportive parents, and those from more privileged backgrounds, who have an easier time learning because resources are available to them.

Recently, some people in Turkey tried to ban girls from wearing veils in universities. Lale and Mine seemed to support the ban. They said that girls were wearing the veils in certain ways to express their political opinions, not their religion. Those who support the ban wanted students to leave their politics and religion at home when they come to school. Islamic tradition says religion is not something to be talked about publicly. In Turkey, you don't ask someone about their religion in the same way you don't ask someone their weight or age in the States.

Lale and Mine fear a religious revolution like what happened in Iran in the 1970s. They have talked to Iranian women who said they didn't see at that time such a revolution coming. Subtle changes, such as more women wearing headscarves, happened and then suddenly there was a revolution.

In Turkey during the 1990s there was a religious revival with more women wearing headscarves. Lale and Mine just want to discourage women from covering up — and make sure they are not encouraged to wear headscarves (some religious organizations offer female students scholarships if they cover up). They want people to be able to wear whatever they want, but they want to make sure Turkey doesn't experience what Iran did. For this reason they kind of like the ban, but not completely, because they believe in freedom of expression as well.

They really don't like their current system of government. Parliament members are elected by popular vote, but the president and prime minister are selected by parliament. To be represented in parliament, a political party must have at least 10 percent of the popular vote. In the last election only two parties won more than 10 percent so they make up all of the parliament — only 50 percent of Turkish voters are actually represented in parliament right now. I feel similarly about the electoral college in the States, but at least it's not as bad as what Turkey's system sounds like.

It is very difficult to make a living in Turkey. To get by, the average Turk must work 57 hours a week! Gee, I thought we Americans worked too much.

During the drive home, I asked Mine about her religion (timidly because she had earlier explained how Turks don't usually do that). She said she's Muslim, but she doesn't fast during Ramadan and she doesn't pray five times a day. She believes Allah created all things and is in all things, and that you should be good to all people. She could, however, be Jewish or Christian because she doesn't “pay attention to details.”

It was very interesting for me to hear this attitude toward religion from the Muslim perspective. All the Muslims I have met before, in Morocco and back home, have seemed to pay attention to the details. Our American media also likes to lead us to believe that all Muslims are radical, fanatic or fundamentalist. Mine's belief system seemed a lot like mine in that I'm Catholic, but I don't follow everything the Vatican says.

About This Entry

You are reading "Turkish Feast and Turkish Politics", an entry posted on 15 August 2008 by Jackie Steves.

20 replies to this entry. Add your comment below.


Comments  [ top ]

This was by far one of the most interesting posts you have written, much can be said about a country's history. Some excellent questions can come from your post, eg. Why do Nancy Pelosi and Obama call what happened to the Armenian's genocide? There's only one way to find out, read Turkey's History from inception and follow through to today and your questions may be answered, however, the only way to find the truth is to read the facts, the true facts, whatever they may be. To be honest with you, I am an ex-catholic, I decided to read the history of the Vatican and I had a total mind change. History can be very haunting. Continue to enjoy your trip !

Posted by: Great Post - Aug 15, 2008 5:35 PM
Your best post so far!! I cant wait to for your next one!! I have several muslin friends and I am glad to see that you are not afraid of asking questions about their beliefs, I feel that is the only way to break down barriers.

Posted by: Marc - Aug 16, 2008 5:39 AM
Thank you for this thoughtful posting. You are learning so much.

Posted by: Kay - Aug 16, 2008 5:59 AM
Jackie, this was your best post of your trip. I think there are more people than not who "do not pay attention to the details" in their religion and politics. What a nice way to describe that belief. Thanks! Safe and happy travels.

Posted by: Audrey in Keizer, OR - Aug 16, 2008 7:53 AM
Thanks for taking time to write such an interesting, thoughtful, detailed post. You show how a traveler can learn much about their hosts' beliefs and lifestyle, with respect and courtesy.

Posted by: Carol in Maryland - Aug 16, 2008 11:37 AM
I've enjoyed your posts about your trip and think it would be great if your dad could find a way to work your insight into his books or website on a more regular basis. What you wrote about Turkey doesn't surprise me. They have straddled the line between "East" and "West" for centuries, are officially secular like France, and actually have a fairly sizable Jewish and Christian populations. The US government often holds up Turkey as a "model" for the nearby Middle Eastern states, and I'm curious if you have any insight from your friends as to what the Turks think of this.

Posted by: KPO'M - Aug 17, 2008 8:38 AM
Jackie, your posting was sadly not thoughtful, and I fear overly chiding a young person, but genocide denial is hideous. They say that denial is the final stage of genocide, and the Turks still do it, largely because the Allies refused to hold them responsible for the genocide, wanting Turkey as a bullwark against newly communist Russia. Turks held for genocide were released; there was no Nurmberg. Genocide denial is actually so awful that it's illegal in some countries. No reputable scholar in the world would question the Armenian genocide, in which the Turks launched their final solution and murdered 1.5 to 2 million Armenians, using the age-old argument that they were quelling an internal civil war (the Turkish government actually pays a few quacks to erect this argument in U.S. universities). Seeking to ethnically cleanse all non-Turks, and reeling from humiliation at the end of the Ottoman Empire, they shot the able-bodied men, then marched women, elderly, and children into the desert to die. No Armenian on earth would deny this, even though, to this day, the Turks actually murder Turkish Armenians who speak the truth. Taner Akcam is the latest Turkish scholar to publish work confirming the genocide, as if there were any doubt. Being inquisitive is a good thing, but be careful when you question horrific events based upon the self-serving and extremely offensive comments of the descendants of perpetrators who wish to evade responsibility, even in retrospect. To deny the Holocaust or the Armenian genocide is a form of hate, as you will I hope come to learn. And please note:in every genocide and mass slaughter in history, denialists will try to point to some "outrage" by the victims to whitewash the entire event. So it was with the Jews, the Bosnians, the Armenians, Native Americans, the Tutsi, African-Americans . . . . All of these somehow deserved the slaughters to which they were subjected by virtue of some alleged slight, act, skirmish, etc.

Posted by: scholar - Aug 18, 2008 8:45 AM
I, too, have been confronted with Turkish deniers of the Armenian genocide. Just ask them sometime to read a history of Turkey not written by a Turk. They will learn much. It must be about time for you girls to return to the USA to get ready for college. Lots of luck on that front.

Posted by: Grandmother - Aug 18, 2008 8:56 AM
To "Scholar:" Jackie was not denying the Armenian genocide; she was reporting the Turks' denial.

Posted by: Kay - Aug 18, 2008 3:28 PM
Scholar, I think you are completely incorrect is assesing Jackie's post as 'not thoughtful'. I thought it was an honest recollection of an exchange that she had with a Turkish woman and indeed thoughtfully questioned the veracity of the exchange.

Posted by: Lisa - Aug 18, 2008 4:20 PM
Respectfully, the responses are naive and sophistic. The problem with media is that it gives voice to outlandish positions and opinions and then selectively presents them as somehow mainstream or valid. This blog UNcritically sets forth a plainly ugly and pernicious apology for genocide, which should never be given the light of day, much less uncritically. And then, in utter ignorance, the author unequivocally states that she feels persuaded by the denialist position, which she finds "very convincing": "My first inclination is to side with the victims, the Armenians. But Lale and Mine were very convincing that everyone, even Armenians in Turkey, believe it was not genocide." One need only replace Armenians with Jews to understand how profoundly disturbing and offensive this is. Part of raising consciousness is politely taking someone aside and disabusing her of her ignorance, but when ignorant comments are trumpeted at large, and when they are hurtful, as genocide denial is, an outraged response, if done respectfully as here, is warranted. All justice is strife, and I suspect that, since she comes from a progressive and caring family, Ms. Steves will recognize the consequences of such public announcements without proper education and sensitivity on the subject, and create that inner strife, that tension that Dr. King taught us is required to root out our insensitivities and become more loving, progressive, and enlightened humans. I wish her and all of you constructive tension and love.

Posted by: scholar - Aug 19, 2008 5:35 AM
Scholar, I read Ms. Steves comments as a recount of what someone said and how it made her feel. The fact that she found it "very convincing" shouldn't be that hard to understand as often times people are moved by the voices they hear. It's very hard to discern tone in email or in blogs. I believe your response is closer to "outraged response" than "politely disabusing". The latter would have seemed more appropriate here. F

Posted by: F - Aug 19, 2008 7:59 AM
An aside--some years ago while in turkey, I was told that, yes, the U.S. sends food to Turkey as aid, but all the nutrition is removed from the food before it is sent to Turkey. Another example, like the denial of the Armenian genocide, of the lie repeated often enough becoming the truth. Yet, we must keep in mind that no one alive in Turkey today had anything to do with the Armenian genocide. Of far greater importance in the present is the subjugation of the Orthodox Christian Church in Turkey.

Posted by: Grandmother - Aug 19, 2008 8:15 AM
The comment Mine made about details reminded me of the quote "The devil is in the details". It is important for all of us to remember that Christianity, Judaism and Islam all follow the same God.

Posted by: Murray - Aug 19, 2008 12:18 PM
No, they don't. Where do you find Jesus Christ in Islam or Judism?

Posted by: grandmother - Aug 19, 2008 1:43 PM
Sorry for the typo. Of course, it should be Judaism.

Posted by: grandmother - Aug 19, 2008 1:45 PM
Grandmother, Christians believe Jesus Christ was human embodiment of God--the same God worshiped by Muslims and Jews. It really is semantics and details.

Posted by: Nancy - Aug 19, 2008 2:54 PM
Please people many countries and people fabricate history...eg. Many times I have seen Italy state that they are the cradle of European culture, yet you do not need a degree in European history to know that this is not true, its just what they want people to believe...so if you research the facts, you will find the truth. Need I say more?

Posted by: voice of the people - Aug 19, 2008 3:55 PM
Sorry, Nancy. Christians believe in the Triune God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Posted by: grandmother - Aug 19, 2008 4:26 PM
I tell you what: let's all chill on people's personal religious beliefs for half a minute and stick to the issue at hand, shall we? Ms. Jackie, Scholar has a salient point and an unassailable message--it's crucial for all of us to think more crtically and not take things at face value. If all I did was take some White South African tourists word for it(in my checkout line as teenaged checker)apartheid was all a Western Media embellishment.

Posted by: Alfran - Aug 19, 2008 6:56 PM

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