Minority Travelers' Forum: 2006
Have any guidebooks been particularly helpful? Are there any places in Europe you'd discourage other minorities from visiting? How do you deal with stares or "special" treatment in areas that rarely see a minority or mixed-race couple? Please share your minority-related European travel tips and anecdotes here.
Open Mind
I wanted to add my two cents . . . earlier this year I traveled to Serbia and Germany. Germans, while not the friendliest of people were very helpful and polite, which is all I required. Serbia (while not a top holiday destination) I was treated very well, folks waved and said good morning or good evening, some tried to teach me Serbian but more importantly while visiting some of the remote monasteries, people there were extremely warm and friendly. All in all I did have my reservations about going to Belgrad but those fears soon disappeared. Go out there, travel, see the world.
Islandgyrl <email>
NJ USA Sun 12/31/2006
You will love Berlin:) The public transportation is wonderful(U-bahn, strassenbahn, S-bahn, und O-busse)and, even with the government shift from Bonn to Berlin, it is still relatively inexpensive.
Let us refrain from getting into any discussions about how US involvement in WWI set the stage for many things that happened next:)
James <email>
USA Fri 12/29/2006
Germany
I'm curious about Germany. I'm engaged to a German who eventually wants us to live in Berlin, his hometown. Can anyone give me any information about what to expect.
As a side note, as much as there is about racism on here, I wanted to add that it seems to me that Europeans like exotic women. Coming from someone who has dated a Swede, a Norwegian, Dutch, and is now marrying a German; I've never had any problems with European men at all. I love them, and have grown to prefer them.
Natalia
Houston, Tx USA Thu 12/28/2006
Richard, I had to laugh when you said you were afraid to come to the US because of race. Trust me, we have people of all different races over here, more so than the UK, and nobody cares. Here in Texas there are blacks, mexican, vietnamese etc. You'll likely have less problems here then in the UK.
TX USA Thu 12/28/2006
"1: The US. Somebody help me - I don't understand how such a "progressive" nation can be haunted by such an immature mindset of cultural seperatism"
There is no more cultural seperatism here in the US then anywhere else. I'm from the US and I've been to Europe, Asia and Latin America. I've found that people of different ethnic groups, regardless of country, do tend to live or socialize together more often ie. Pakistani communities in the UK, Mexican communities in the US, Chinese communities in Canada, Muslim communities in Sweden etc... I think it is just people's tendency everywhere to feel comfortable around their own ethnic group because it is familiar. However, here in the US, blacks travel all over the country, so do other races. It's no big deal and nobody would give you a second glance because of your race. Being from the UK is what would get noticed. Don't believe what you hear.
LJT
CA USA Thu 12/28/2006
Richard in the UK, Austria Racism here. Thanks for your comments. The only time we felt nervous in Austria was with the border patrol. The stares don't get to us as that will happen everywere, whether it is one of disapproval or curiousity. It is the more the treatment - no one likes to be treated so badly for no reason (believe me the treatment was so much more than being rude or indifferent). However, this treatment has never stopped us from traveling. We have been to Paris, London, Amsterdam, Berlin, Munich, Barcelona, Brussels, Madrid, South of France, all over Italy. Many places more than once but Austria was just the one that was the most uncomfortable, although there were a few tense moments in Berlin.
But I wanted to comment on your first post and the fact that you haven't traveled to the US. We live in New York City and frankly no one even gives us a second look. Don't get me wrong, NYC has it racial divides and there are areas outside of Manhattan that a black man should never go to but New York City is great and you should never hesistate in coming here. As for the other parts of the US it all depends. They only place where we had a problem was in Boston. We've been all over the south and never felt fear like we did in Boston. But having said that, you should come to the US and see for yourself.
NYC, USA Wed 12/27/2006
Please Travel often and wide
I think its important for the "minorities" to travel often and be seen and confronting the evil of racism. American minorities are better equipped to do this. Be extra cautious in countries such as Spain, Austria and parts of Germany and UK, but please don't let few bigoted and narrow minded people stop you from seeing and enjoying the world, most of the its beautiful and majority of the people are good. The more "people of minority" travel the better it for all of us. Please, go out and enjoy. I wish Rick was more forthcoming in his videos and books and caution the minorities about these countries. My new year resolution - 3weeks of Europe backpacking.
Johny
Marietta, Ga USA Wed 12/27/2006
Travel
It is so important to travel as the last poster said - you could experience the same rejection even in your home town, so it shouldn't be allowed to deter travelling further affieild. Here's the choice - accept the debilitating feelings of rejection and restriction and stay put, or "go through" them and take a risk and see more of the wonders of God's creation than you can through your front room window.
I've travelled the East coast of Mexico and flown to Cuba, been to Paris about 3 times, Canne, Belgium, (Northern) Italy about 3 times, Tanzania, Trinidad and Tobago (3 times). Ireland (twice), Barcelona, Ibiza (about 3 times).
Every time I go overseas, I recognise I might encounter racism and it guts me - paralysing. But then I think, "Hey, I go and see this place - that just happens to be inhabited by the people who live there - they don't really OWN it, or I stay at home. And then I go. Most places I've been have been fine. In Cuba - where we convinced the airline to let us fly back to Mexico a day early because of the shock of the poverty in Havana - the police harrassed our guide because they were suprised to see black toursists. We MUST travel. It educates our hosts.
There are 3 places I'm afraid to go to - 1: The US. Somebody help me - I don't understand how such a "progressive" nation can be haunted by such an immature mindset of cultural seperatism. Comments please! 2: Germany. I have difficulty in reconciling how a nation could allow Jews to be massacred the way they did, and as I understand it, now treat Turks pretty bad. 3: South Africa - I'm due to go there in 2007. How do you reconcile apartied? My best friend's wife is Africaan (he is white) and they've moved out to Cape Town recently.
Just being honest - I know I bring my prejudices to the situation of travelling to a place, too. But it's best to be honest about it and then weight up if you're likely be lynched at your destination. If not. Go for it!
Richard
London, UK Wed 12/27/2006
Austria Racism
One more post...
Mixed Couple in Austria: When I read your post I was really touched by your honesty. It's obvious you experienced racism but here's something I've had to deal with with respect to 2 of the incidents you mentioned.
Stares: Psychology teaches that contrast is one of the 7 factors for giving attention. Basically, if you see someone who looks different to you or "out of place" in your visual schema of things you will look at them. Some people/cultures don't however they do the opposite - instead they look away. Either way - what matters is the motivation for their stare or ignoring you which you can't tell (as you're not in their head) without them doing something to you. Even frowning (which usually rubs me up the wrong way) is an outworking of perplexion and not necessary negative. So what I do is ignore the person staring or significantly impress the person ignoring me for their attention, if I can be bothered. If I can muster it I smile back - not expecting a smile back - as how they behave is entirely up to them and their responsibility. But I like to leave a situation congruent - i.e. I did the best/right thing irrespective of the other person.
2: Have you ever not sone something and then moments later the opportunity arises again, you realise you should have done it, and so you oblige the second time? Perhaps the person who should have taken the photo went through this?
Either way, don't let what could well of been his ignorance or inability to reconcile your difference and respond politely and positively taint your obvious tennacity for travel. Go for it!
Richard
UK Wed 12/27/2006
Austria Racisism
I am white married to an african american and we went to Austria in 2004. The treatment we received in Vienna particulary wasn't very nice. People stared and were rude but we didn't let that bother us, but when we were ignored in restaurants and stores it became a problem. We had less of a problem in Salzburg and Innsbruck. Although in Salzburg we asked a man if he would take a picture of us and he said no which at first was fine but then a white couple coming across the same bridge asked and he stopped to take their picture. Most disturbing though was the Austrian passport control on the train from Munich to Vienna. The official was trying to start a fight with my husband and when I tried to interject he told me to shut up. All our papers were in order (I am a nut about document preparation) so there was no reason for them to behave like that. Austria is a beautiful country and we would have liked to have seen more but left early and spent more time in Italy.
After all our experiences in Austria however, our worst travel experience in dealing with racisim was in Boston, MA right here in the United States.
So one never knows what their experience will be.
NY USA Tue 12/26/2006
xxx
Where I live (not Austria) taxi drivers donīt make eye contact, they look at the road. And they donīt chat, because that would violate the customers privacy. Same for waiters. They start speaking only if the customer makes the initiative. And taxis open the door, but only one door because the second person is on the other side of the car and has plenty of time to open his/her door while the driver keeps the other one open.
EU Mon 12/25/2006
Your Austria trip
I'm also sad to hear about your Austria trip, but then again, "Wil" posted on 10/23 that, "In places like Sweden, Austria, and Germany, my experiences have also been very positive. And these are places that people of colour are often discouraged from visiting." So who knows what the best advice to give is? I guess it's just like many people say, Go over and see for yourself and make your own mind up. Certainly, unless there is a very real great danger of physical harm (for example, I would think very carefully about today's Russia) I don't think anyone should be discouraged from going anywhere based on comments on this board. That way the racists win!
Art
London, UK Fri 12/22/2006
Racism is medival
Lyn
Really is sad to visit a country with high hopes of enjoying a new experience only to be rejected and mistreated for petty reasons.Austria and Spain both have horrible reputations of holding backward ignorant beliefs in regards to ethnicity.I hope you don't allow that one trip to put you off from visiting other areas of Europe.African Americans,Hispanics and Asians are embraced through out europe by evolved thinking people.Please don't deprive other europeans the chance to interact with you.Don't let the antisocial knuckle draggers win!
Ryan
Orlando, Fl USA Thu 12/21/2006
Response and Question For Lyn on Austria Trip
Lyn,
I am sorry to hear about your experience - truly a shame that you had to endure such coldness and disrespect throughout your trip.
I do have a question though. Did your Asian friend notice/realize the treatment you received as soon as you did? If so - Did she notice before you said anything(If you said anything to her)?
I wonder how many friends/travel partners realize the SUBTLE mistreatment of their minority friend/partner when they themselves are not treated poorly. Of course, when the racism is obvious everyone notices - but my point is, is that it isn't always so obvious - as in Lyn's taxi episode for example.
TAB
Washington, DC USA Tue 12/19/2006
Unfriendly Austria
First of all, I want to thank Rick Steves for this wonderful site. I just returned from visiting Austria filled with disappointment and nowhere to let it out. While in Austria, I determined that I was going to research the country when I returned, to find out why I experienced what I did. This forum was exactly what I needed to see. I'm an African American woman who travelled with an Asian female friend to Vienna and Salzburg. From the moment we arrived at the airport in Vienna and was picked up by the taxi driver, I experienced aloofness and unfriendliness. The taxi driver never bothered to make eye contact with me or even acknowledge my presence. He opened and closed the car door for my Asian friend while I was left to take care of myself. I immediately ignored this thinking that it was an isolated incident by one racist citizen. When we entered the Marriott Hotel, the concierge continued this unfriendly behavior. When I asked questions or made comments, I could tell it was difficult for them to make eye contact with me and they would quickly give their attention back to my Asian friend. I experienced this throughout the trip. All transactions at cafes or restaurants were done through her. At first I wondered if they thought that I was her travelling maid, but their behavior was constant even though I made my purchases with my credit card. I felt as if my presence was not welcome in Austria at all. I got so many cold stares and one or two smiles, which was usually after they took my money. I have been to other parts of Europe before but I've never experienced the backwardness and unfriendliness that I did in Austria. I expected to be a minority in the country but didn't expect the treatment I received. Had it not been for relatives and friends back home, I would not have bothered to spend a cent on anything but meals. I felt sorry for the few blacks that I'd seen living in Austria, because I could only imagine the racism they're subjected to in that country. I may fuss about the racism that occurs in America but after visiting Austria, I was very anxious to return to a country where I am respected. Austria is a beautiful country and I'm happy that I got to see its picturesque mountainsides and visit its palaces, etc., but most times it's the people that make the country. As far as Austria goes, I will never return. I left feeling disappointed. I wish that I'd seen this site before I agreed to make this trip. I never would have bothered. There are too many other parts of Europe or the world for that matter to visit and enjoy, without being made to feel like a nuisance.
Lyn <email>
Queens, NY USA Fri 12/15/2006
Hey Sojourner
Sojourner, when you say you are reminded that you are black my American tourists, do you mean that the American tourists treat you in a degrading manner? I'd like to contact you if possible, I have a few questions about S. Italy. I want to go Sicily but have heard so many bad things about racism there, I'd love to get your insight on the region. I've travelled in central/northern Italy without problems. You can contact me cmarcallen at gmail dot com
Chris
L.A., CA USA Thu 12/14/2006
Bad experience with French customs
First, I'd like to say thanks to Rick for creating this site and his amazing work.
As a young South Asian (Indian) male, I've traveled all over Western Europe with my wife and have only had one incident.
All of Italy, Spain, the Netherlands, Germany, the UK, Belgium were excellent.
The one incident we had occurred in France - at the Eurotunnel entrance - where my wife and I were accosted by French customs (I noticed someone else on this board discussed French customs).
They were making comments at us and insisted on reading all of my receipts and questioning me because we went to some expensive places. One even threw a pen at me when I asked why he had to read our restaurant receipts. My wife spoke perfect French and tried to talk to them - but they still treated us like criminals.
Personally, I think there needs to be more supervision of these officers, as the incidents involving them are relatively widespread.
All in all, however, my experiences in Europe were excellent
RJ
Atlanta, GA USA Tue 12/12/2006
Italy for Afro-Americans
I have lived in Siena Italy for almost two years and have traveled all over Italy during that time. In my experience the Italians have been most welcoming and one of my favorite trips was the two weeks I spent in Sicily in March of this year. [Palermo, Agrigento and Taormina] The only time that I'm reminded that I'm black is occasionaly when I run into American tourists.
I don't speak perfect Italian by a long shot and for the most part the Italians have been most patient with me. I have an Italian friend in Milano and have visited there on several occasions and never felt any coldness. Yes sometimes I get long stares and at first it was a little off putting but now I'm use to it. It is a different culture and Italians tend to stare unabashedly not take side ways glances like most Americans would. I agree with the other posts that suggest practicing golden rule then just relax and experience la dolce vita. :)
Living in Italy is definitly different then vacationing here I would agree. Three months to get phone service turned on, a postal service that will deliver your packages it just might take five months. These are the non dolce parts of Italian life. :)
Sojourner
Siena, Italy Tue 12/12/2006
Do not let fear of racism stop you from traveling
Hi all,
I am a 44 year-old black American female who recently spent 15 months living and teaching at international schools in Prague, Czech Republic. Seeking a warmer climate and change of scenery, I recently moved to the United Arab Emirates to teach at an international school in a suburb about 15 minutes outside of Dubai.
Please, please, please, do not worry about racism! Do not let fear stop you from traveling! You belong anyplace in the universe that you want to be. Will you encounter racism?? Maybe, and maybe not.
When traveling, keep in mind that most people are good, kind, and decent individuals. If you carry yourself with dignity and respect, then you will (90% of the time) be treated with dignity and respect.
If you do happen to encounter racism, judge the situation wisely and deal with it accordingly. That could either mean taking a stand, or removing yourself from the threat as quickly as possible. But whatever you do, keep on traveling! I am tired of being the only dark spot on the plane, train, bus, tour, restaurant, supermarket, etc :-)
Happy travels!
Regina <email>
Dubai, United Arab Emirates, USA Mon 12/11/2006
Not so different...
Paris and London are among the most cosmopolitan places on earth, comparable to NYC. As a minority you are not going to feel very different leaving from say, JFK and landing at Heathrow or Charles de Gaulle. The person who checks your passport, at Heathrow at least, is quite likely to be of a minority. More likely you will be more conscious of being an American arriving in a foreign country than being a minority.
I think the above also holds true for the Netherlands, where out of 15m, 1m are of immigrant background/ancestry.
It's really Eastern Europe where they pick and scratch at your passport while dozens of Ukrainians and Russians and Georgians travelling on false passports happily breeze past(as per a BBC report I was watching a couple of days ago!:-))
Art
London, USA Wed 12/06/2006
Paris 06
I just returned from Paris on 11/28/06 and was plesantly surprised at my experience. I too had read a few things about negative attitudes towards blacks who could be mistaken for Africans (evidently there are some immigration anxieties due to a high influx of Africans). However, I went with the attitude that I would enjoy myself regardless and see all the sights that I had read about my whole life. Fortunately, we found the local Parisians very friendly and as helpful as they could be considering the language difficulties (we do no speak the language, but made an effort). In my opinion, go with the attitude that good things will happen and more than likely they will. I think sometimes fear of the unknown manifests itself in barriers that we unknowingly put up, preventing us from connecting with others.
Now, was every single person chirpy and friendly? Of course not, but then that's everywhere you go. Take a chance and see the world.
Tammee
Los Angeles, CA USA Sat 12/02/2006
Young and Black in Eastern Europe
I went to Prague and Budapest a couple of weeks ago. I must admit that I was a little nervous about the trip (being a young black woman in Eastern Europe). The things I read on this forum made me even more anxious. I must say, though, I was treated with kindness and respect just like everyone else and I had one of the best trips ever. That's why you have to try things out for yourself.
Nicole
Philadelphia, PA USA Sun 11/19/2006
Don's Suggestions for Baltic Europe
Personally, I would find it very demeaning if one were to dress/or to act differently specifically to help a racist hide his/her true feelings. I would much rather have an honest interchange (for better or for worse).
That being said, I am an American of Chinese ancestry. In over 30 years, I have travelled throughout western Europe many times and have yet to encounter any type of racisms, whether as a student staying in hostels 30 years ago or now in hotels or with European friends, as a single person, as a couple with my wife of Asian ancestry, or with our children.
Bill
USA Fri 11/17/2006
Baltics
Hi, I'm a Londoner of Indian parentage who's been "lurking" on the forum for a while. Just a couple of points to the post about the Baltics.
First, the ex-USSR Baltic countries are East Europe, and I don't think you can apply the same generalities there as you can to Western Europe, where most posters seem to be aiming to visit. In most countries in Western Europe, say France or Portugal or Germany or the UK, you will see minorities in every major city, although the level of friendliness of course will vary. But lets just say I never feel particularly uncomfortable in any of these countries. France especially is a favourite, but then I speak French. I am surprised about the comments about Spain; while I feel the Spanish are quite brusque (even to each other!), I generally found Spain to be quite easy going. Again, maybe language played a part, although my Spanish is quite rusty!
But Eastern Europe is different, what with the lack of exposure to minorities during the closed off Communist periods. Having said that, I thought the Baltics were ok, or at least Estonia, where I spent a year living with my Estonian girlfriend. I did hate standing out SO MUCH, because there are so few (visible) minorities or even Southern Europeans like Italians or Spaniards - its got to be one of the whitest countries I've ever been to(very blond fair-skinned people). But any uncomfortableness on my part was due to frequent stares rather than hostility. 95% of the time I would say it was curiosity rather than anything else that prompted people to stare. To be honest, after a while there, I got so used to seeing no darker skinned people, even I would stare if I was walking on the street and saw someone non-white or even dark Southern European!
Also, in Estonia there seems to be a fascination with India/Nepal/Tibet etc, so I found myself being constantly barraged with questions about these parts of the world, people couldn't seem to get their heads around the fact that a dark skinned person could have been born and raised in England and knew less than they did about daily life in Bombay/ Calcutta/ wherever - its no joke to say I have met Estonian travellers who have probably spent more time on the Subcontinent than I did. But all in all, I think this is a healthy curiosity. However, this fascination on their part may have made things easier for me than for say, a black person. I can't say.
Regarding the post about various ethnic groups being looked down on, perhaps this is true, I don't doubt it, but frankly as long as they don't bother me or threaten me, I could care less. To be frank, there is a certain amount of psychological cushioning there when you know you are from a Western country and that what you are spending in a long weekend is probably what people make in a month there. I am not saying this is right or wrong (its probably a VERY bad attitude to have, so anybody preparing to jump down my throat should be aware I know this :-)) but it does make you less self-conscious and allows you to get on with enjoying yourself. Because the fact is, YOU ARE BRINGING MONEY INTO THE ECONOMY and no matter what people may personally think, everyone is aware of this, from the goverment on down. THIS IS NOT A LICENCE TO ACT THE BIG ARROGANT TOURIST BY THE WAY, ALWAYS REMAIN POLITE AND NONASSUMING.
One thing that really really helps is to learn a bit of the language. If you think its important in large countries like France or Spain, imagine what its like in a country like Estonia, where there are only about a million Estonian language speakers (the remaining 400 thousand being Russians left over from Soviet times), and to have a legacy of hundreds of thousands killed or sent to camps during Soviet times. A foreigner making even a minor effort at their language brings a huge smile to many many people's faces.
I can't really address Don's points about the "infectors" because I never heard about these instances while I was there. It may have happened a few years back. But frankly, if people are going to judge you by colour, they will have decided already, all these stories do is reinforce your beliefs or push you over the fence if you were wavering. For the most part everything was fine. OF COURSE, as everywhere else in East Europe, you MUST keep your eyes out for the skinheads, but they're generally an isolated lot - very unlikely to do anything but mutter if they see you in the centre (although you may have the supreme bad luck of running into them late at night on your own - but are you likely to wander around dark alleys on your own late at night in a strange town?). In one year I think I saw them 4 or 5 times.
AND of course, if you go to the more unsavoury areas, you could be in trouble for the colour of your skin - though to be honest, probably because it automatically marks you out as a foreigner --> probably a tourist --> therefore likely to have money --> therefore a good target to mug!
I did live in a poorer Russian area of Tallinn the capital, with my girlfriend. I wouldn't recommend doing this if you don't know an area, but once I got to know my way around, and a little bit of Russian, things were fine. Women, elderly people were no problem (I find Russian pensioners EXTREMELY helpful and courteous people, very warm and charming). Young men can be ar**holes but the biggest problem I had was them coming up and slurring "cigaryet?"
I know this post has been all over the place, and I don't discount what Don says, but as an actual minority who lived in the Baltics, I thought it would be useful to contribute.
Art
London, UK Thu 11/16/2006
About Prague
Prague is absolutely beautiful and amazing.It's an ethereal city beyond belief. As a woman of Color in Prague you will have an absolutely fantastic time. By the way the Czech men love dark haired exotic looking women like you and myself. Czech men are absolutely gorgeous.
Excalibur <email>
Phoenix, AZ USA Tue 11/14/2006
Eastern europe
I am planning to take an escorted tour to Eastern Europe in 2007 and taking few days before and after the tour to go on my own-- I will be traveling by myself( 40s and Asian woman). Is it safe to go by myself touring Prague, Vienna or Budapest? I have been to most Western European countries and never experienced a racist encounter with anybody. Years ago, we took an escorted tour to Spain and american caucasian people would not share table with my parents and me.
anna <email>
san jose, ca USA Tue 11/07/2006
Paris was fine...
My best friend from college and I traveled to Paris together a couple of years ago. He'd never been, but had heard me talk about how great it was so much. He's black (African-American) and I'm white, both men, and a week before the trip, I suddenly realized that I had no clue about what the experience of a non-white tourist in Paris would be like. I searched a bunch of forums and came across a few horror stories and was a bit concerned, but we had a great time with no problems.
We were doing the usual touristy things in Paris and Chartres, and out to dinner, going to a shopping mall, and walking around town a lot. We did not go out to bars, but then, we never do here either. He fell asleep on the train to Chartres and the conductor didn't bother to wake him for his ticket when I said he was with me. We didn't notice any stares, and we did talk about it.
However, at customs (yes--customs, not passport control/immigration) back into the U.S., he was questioned whereas I was not (the customs officer asked if he was travelling alone, confirmed with me that we were really travelling together, asked where he worked, what he does there). When the officer found out he was a police officer, he stopped questioning him.
Thanks to all who contribute to this forum.
Dan
USA Mon 11/06/2006
Response to Sam
Sam - I would first like to touch on your comment about Italy being like America back in the 1950's.
You are comparing two completely different issues since you were speaking about immigration and non euro's moving in for work puposes. I think any American, black or white would agree what i just stated - unrelated issues.
Though I do believe that being a resident as opposed to a traveller, notice i didnt say tourist, does offer a different perspective through the camera's eye. However, i still find it very hard to beilieve that the enviroment you currently live in is any different than what can be found in other parts of the world.
I know for instance that there is racism still in the UK and a great deal of it has to do with the eastern europeans migrating for work.
Is this any different than the racism you are experiencing in Milan or italy for instance? It is sad that the influx of migrant workers into the EU has stifled the growth of many healthly minds in Europe. People will always seek a solution to a problem - even if its found in blaming another Race, Color, Religion or Creed.
I am a black american and have seen and or felt racism in various degrees but i have come to learn that not everyone walks hand in hand with their fears. I am not trying to dismiss your own personal experience and i do feel for you. I just believe that as travellers it is up to us to educate the world and exact change rather than wait for it. Tourist sightsee, buy souviners and go home. A traveller spends time talking to locals, learns or attempts to learn the language and immerses themselves into the culture. Of course they sightsee and buy gifts but the experience is based on more than just a trip.
With that said, if there was even a hint of racism on any of my trips to italy, i wouldnt have even known it. As a tourist, people travel with preconceived notions as well as their ego's (speaking of my fellow Loud Americans - lol).
Why carry more "baggage" than you already need in order to "experience", not just sightsee in the country of your choice?
John <email>
Denver, CO USA Mon 11/06/2006
Italy from a resident
To really know a country, you have to live there for a period of time. This will give you the right insight in to the attitudes of the locals and the atmosphere in the country. If you experience a country from a tourist view, you can't really appreciate fully the city. You're in a state of excitement, everything is unfamiliar to you. You're probably in the center of town. People will be able to know you are a tourist.
I live in Milan, Italy. It is a nothern city. I'm also a Black Briton who is working here for experience. Now I don't know about the rest of Italy. But Milan is a horrible city to be someone of colour. There is a marked tension in this city, a bad atmosphere that lingers, because the Italians resent, the presence of non-Europeans, but cannot really do without the work that these people put in. You'll never get a smile from them or even simple hellos or thanks you's. Italy today for immigrants, is where America was in the 1950's. They are that behind. Please don't judge a country from a visit of a few days. Because if you know the real reality you would avoid it all together. Contact me if you need any advice.
Sam Huss <email>
Milan, Italy Mon 11/06/2006
In love with travelling
I travelled to London and Trento, Italy this past spring. My worst experience was actually on the train fron Heathrow to my hostel. Three 20-something Muslim men harrassed me from the moment they sat down across from me until I exited the train some thirty minutes later. That upset me, but the rest of my vacation more than erased the thought of those three. London is such a multi-cultural city, no one gave a second glance. My boyfriend (who is Brazilian by birth; I am Afro-American) has a brother who lives there, so I experienced the city as a local not a tourist. I think that any apprehension came from my being American. When people realized I was articulate and intelligent, not arrogant, they were rather friendly. I travelled alone to Trento by train. People at every stop went out of their way to help me. I was robbed of some cash, but only through my own carelessness. I am going back to Europe for two weeks this Christmas and can't wait. I think that having grown up in the south prepared me to deal with all kinds of people. I just keep an open mind and a positive attitude.
Mona M <email>
Shutesbury, MA USA Sun 11/05/2006
Spain Travel Experience
Since 2001 I have extensively traveled throughout the UK,Western, Central, Eastern and Southern Europe.
So after reading all of these interesting posts in regarding Racism in Spain and also other recurring racial issues throughout Southern Europe, I must say that I do indeed feel a broad range of emotions. Which would include feelings of sympathy, emphathy,disturbed, confused, or just plain baffled. I was in Barcelona, Spain in Spring 2001 (before 911) for about four days. I had taken a spring break weekend trip while I was studying in a Art program in La Coste, France which is outside of Avignon. I traveled by train and stayed at a family run hostel in Barcelona. Within the first five minutes of arriving in my room three Italian guys that were staying down the hall precariously waltzed into my room and started flirting with me by touching my naturally curly hair and one wrapped his arm around my waist. Note to Women travelers:If you ever find yourself in a awkward situation such as this Don't Panic! Be calm, smooth, and laugh it off. Which was exactly what I did. I told the guys that I had to finish packing and that I would see them around. A few minutes later a couple of Aussie guys overheard me speaking English and ran up to me saying. "You speak English, You speak English, thank God you speak English!" Later that night the three of us hung out and went to a club. While I was there young Spanish men were flirting with me throughout the night. For the next couple of days I decided to explore the city on my own, shopping in Artistic eccentric paraphernalia bookstores, galleries or taking B&W pictures for my Photo assignments. For the duration of my stay, interestingly enough I did not receive any rude stares, racially driven epitaphs, or the cold shoulder. The Barcelonans were indeed quite kind to me. If you really want to know the truth if there was any ethnicity group that was personally indifferent towards me it would have to be a couple of African women, who absolutely refused to give me directions. As far as the existing presence of Interracial Relationships in Barcelona, I did see quite a few, especially between Black men and Spaniard women.
Now to the travelers who have most recently traveled to Spain and had unpleasant experiences to share, I do not want to discredit your point of view or perspective. Please take in consideration that this trip took place before the escalated rise of international terrorists attacks. Also I was only there for a four day period, which probably did not give me enough time to witness the exchange of race relations within the Barcelonan sociological landscape. However there are a few tips that I would like to share with minority travelers that would perhaps make there journey a very remarkable and beautiful one:
1. To whatever country your traveling to, make the mandatory effort to speak the primary language at least at a conversational level. Believe me, you would be well respected and not be perceived or revered as an arrogant selfish American. Embrace, acknowledge, and maintain a cultural relative mentality. 2. Blend into a socio-spectrum, in other words don't dress like a tourists, or baggy untasteful clothing, mid d-riffs, tube tops(unless your going to the beach) as well as baseball caps there an absolute dead giveaway. The Answer is Eurocentric, and hip. 3. For women of African or Black descent, take your your blow dryers, and flat irons with you. These hair appliances are my BFF whenever traveling. Seriously I would stay clear away from afrocentric,or neo-soul hairstyles when traveling throughout Southern Europe. These styles are not exactly viewed as favorable and if anything they are frowned upon. Also, as I have personally experienced unfortunately these styles would quickly stigmatize you into a ill reputed category that you would not want to find yourself as a Black woman. Trust me.
Ultimately whatever you do have a life changing experience and don't allow anyone to deter you from traveling and experiencing life. Please email me if you have questions or comments. Thanks. Love and Peace.
Excalibur <email>
Phoenix, AZ USA Thu 11/02/2006
Great time in Eastern Europe.
I am a 26 year old asian american male. I just got back from my eastern europe trip (Oct 19th - 29th). I visited the following cities - Prague, Vienna, & Budapest. I tried my best to stay away from the tourist areas... and I didn't experience any type/form of racism. I found the people of each country to be very friendly and welcoming. I read this board months before my trip, which had made me very paranoid. Please go to Europe with an open mind and you'll have a great time.
Dan
PA USA Mon 10/30/2006
Souther Italy
Rick Steve's warns in his Italy book that minorities in the S. of Italy may feel unwelcome. Has anyone found this to be the case? The pictures of Sicily I've seen are out of this world beautiful, but I don't want to feel uncomfortable there as a black person.
anon
USA Sun 10/29/2006
Thanks Wil
I couldnt agree with you more Wil!
Especially being an American its improtant for us to get off of the "high horse" we somtimes mount overseas and respect as well as immerse ourselves in the culture of the nation we are gifted to visit. One of my worst experiences overseas came while we were in Pompeii. We listened while a young american couple disrespected the sight and loudly voiced their ugly opinions of the ruins. Many people were disgusted by the comments but being an american, i was ashamed that people could travel so far only to carry their ignorance in their back pocket with them. before i leave the house for the airport i always make sure that any apprehension or negativity i may have is checked at the front door.
John <email>
denver, co USA Mon 10/23/2006
Agreement with prior comments
John, I applaud you for bringing in a breath of optimism. You have said, and I believe that it's true, that; "the single most important thing that a person of colour can do is travel..".
I fully came to appreciate my own limitations, and stereotypical thinking, when, as newlyweds, back in the late 80's my wife and I found ourselves in Calgary during the cowboy -themed "Stampede Week". In the USA, a Black person would expect a city filled with partying, beer drinking cowboys to have social dynamics similar to a KKK convention in casual dress. I was stunned to discover that the opposite was true - people were so good to us I frankly couldn't believe it. I mention this experience because I anticipated racism based on the visual cues of those around us; country western music, and cowboy hats....In places like Sweden, Austria, and Germany, my experiences have also been very positive. And these are places that people of colour are often discouraged from visiting. The irony is that we travel to experience other cultures, yet often wish to superimpose our perspectives on people in other countries.... My recollection is that largest number, and worst racist experiences that I have had occured at home in the good old USA. ..So I very much agree that it is best to, be cautious ,but leave your preconceptions and worries behind.
Wil
CA USA Mon 10/23/2006
Ambassadors to the world
The single most important thing that a person of color can do is to travel abroad; in doing so we act as not only ambassadors for our respective race but for human kind as well.
We all have our opinions, definitions and labels when referring to racism. I don't feel the need to add to it anymore than what I have been reading here. What I will say is that no matter where you live or travel the perception of racism will be behind the curtain. There is racism within the black race based on physical appearance as well as social status. According to my Asian friends this direction also follows when speaking of the various Asian ethnicities. There are divisions in religion as well - probably the oldest form of direct hatred towards another group.
As I mentioned above, we are ambassadors when we travel. We bring along the sustenance of who we are in order to crush the perceived notions of "what we are." We tend to forget or fail to understand at times that many Europeans do not interact with minorities at work or even on casual basis. Their view is or can be skewed based on the media's portrait. I am not naïve and do realize that there are social - economic factors that have led to various protest, demonstrations and violence against minorities. Of course anytime you get a homogenized population that feels its social and economic security threaten there will be backlash. Though the US is more diverse in its citizenship than most countries, currently we are going through a similar situation with the issues surrounding immigration and our borders.
I have spent some time in Italy and on each visit I have been rewarded with graciousness, appreciation and respect. I must admit that I too read and heard of the many stories associated with racism in Italy. At one point I felt as if I may have made a travel mistake - lol. The one thing I did was to allow my personality free reign. I spoke to people. I made eye contact and smiled. I asked questions and when I did, I asked them in Italian. I may have botched it up a few good times but the fact that I tried went a long way. When I entered a shop/store I greeted the owner or keeper with buon giorno or buona sera. I always thanked with a gratzie. I made an effort to learn and understand the culture I was honored to see. Color and race became a non issue as the people I met and talked with "saw" me and learned about who I was. To be honest, in all of my travels I have encountered a higher degree of perceived racism in here in the states than anywhere in Europe.
Someone made the comment about not enough black Americans traveling abroad to Europe and I must admit that to a certain extent this is true. Of course black travel abroad but the proportionate of those traveling in relation to white Americans is so far apart that Europeans don't have the occasion of meeting or speaking to many. On one trip to Rome, I was there for 8 days and in that time I noticed only three other black Americans - a couple and a student studying at the university on a foreign exchange. On another trip to Amalfi and Naples I didn't see any blacks in the 9 days we were there. Its not that blacks in the states don't want to travel because I am sure a great deal do. Economically many just can't afford to. I also believe that there isn't much of an interest since Europe has always been marketed towards whites here in America. Some blacks I have spoke with claim that Europe is white and for white people. There is no history that includes blacks other than slavery. It's unfortunate that this view is shared by some. That's like saying that Africa is all black and for blacks only yet more whites travel there than black Americans. Europe does have black history but that's not the point. Coming together and sharing ideas, learning about each other and appreciating the accomplishments of others needs to be realized.
We should never limit ourselves simply because we cater or feed into fear. There is so much knowledge outside of our own scope of security. Unless we travel and exchange thoughts and ideas we will never be able to break down the barriers that house hate, fear, insecurity and isolation.
John <email>
denver, co USA Mon 10/23/2006
Racism worst in Greece or Australia
I'm a 20-yr old Black American female and am interested in studying abroad in either Athens, Greece or Sydney, Australia. I've done a bit of research on both countries and don't know where I would be more welcome considering they both have a substantial amount of racism toward those of darker skin color.
Does anyone know where I would be better off?? Thanks!
JD <email>
Easton, PA USA Thu 10/19/2006
Justin,I agree wih the last poster.You will be greeted by open minded people in the UK.After all,the UK is made a diverse ethnic population.Most western nations don't have the racist history of america.Prepare to have a great time.
Tim
USA Thu 10/19/2006
Feedback for Justin
Reply to Justin.
I am bi-racial also (black and white) so I can kind of understand your concerns. I have not been to Amsterdam, however I just recently returned from a trip to London. I was really amazed at ALL of the inter-racial couples and bi-racial people. You referred to your tattoos and race wasn't the only form of diversity I saw. It was an amazing, beautiful thing. I only speak for myself, but I experienced zero problems and would definitely consider another trip abroad. I think you should defiantly take the leap! Best of luck!
Mianna
Bremerton, WA USA Thu 10/19/2006
Opinion Poll
MT: Most garden variety American racists excuse slavery, lynchings, redlining, skinheads, and the KKK as being "a long time ago". But what about the fellow who was dragged to death in Texas a few years ago by white racists? An example of violent racism ?
By the way my wife is Austrian and Scottish, so I am not anti-white.
Out of approximately fifty years, I have lived 18 years outside of the USA. But I love many things about America
Wil
Ca USA Wed 10/18/2006
Opinion poll
Will, allthough your post was to the point and with out explanation of your experiences,your views are generally on target.Canada is a place that offers acceptance irregardless of ethnicity.They don't have America's slavery history therefore it does not owe a debt to people who have suffered under canadian oppression.You also have hit the nail on the head about racism in europe.Many many Europeans view black people as exotic and extremely attractive and sexy.As a german I can say that has been the experience of myself and many other germans.
Boris
New York, NY USA Wed 10/18/2006
My answer: True Equality, Europe or Asia
USA: More legal rights, easier to earn money but substantial hatred, and violent hatred against minorities (especially Blacks).
Europe: Reduced hatred, very reduced violent hatred. I do not see a ladder to financial success for Blacks, and other minorities. Arrive with your own wealth.
Canada: Hatred against Blacks, and others, is almost completely invisible. Covert racism, along with social stratification reduces the opportunities for financial success. Overall, there is an easy internationalism. Possibly a good choice for easy living.
Asia: An inhospitable environment for Blacks. A rare person can operate successfully in that environment.
Wil
CA USA Wed 10/18/2006
My thoughts
I am not of color but my opinon is europe accepts blacks in somesort of a nimby way example it is fine for Heidi Klum to have a black husband but not my daughter.
John Brangwin <email>
Bellevue, WA USA Wed 10/18/2006
I think it's impossible to compare different countries or continents in a way because each country or place has a different racial breakdown. Minorities in the US are usually black or hispanic while in Europe, they are mostly Muslim/Asian. There are of course blacks in Europe but the numbers are much smaller and the same for Muslims/Asians in the USA. It's easy for a country like Finland to say they have no prejudice against blacks but they have hardly any blacks so that's why. If Finland had the same racial percentage of blacks as say Alabama, then it would be a different story just like here in Texas, we don't have nearly the percentage of Muslims as England so you couldn't compare.
Billie
TX USA Wed 10/18/2006
TRUE EQUALITY:EUROPE OR USA?
I like to take an opinion poll.Based on your travel experience,is America more predjudice than England and other western european countries?Do you believe qualified black americans can find more acceptance when applying for employement in europe?Its easy to say there is less discrimination in europe for tourist of colour who are spending the all mighty dollar.But would that acceptance go by the wayside in England in the workforce?When you look at national government officials who represent the UK,France,Germany & Netherlands,there are zero minority foreign secretarys,zero black,asian or hispanic cabinet ministers.Now compare that record to America's history of giving talented individuals a fair chance at opportunity,why would anyone assume there is less racism in europe?
BOBBY
MIAMI, FL USA Tue 10/17/2006
C A
I wouldn't take the orange throwing incident as an insult. On the other hand, if it was a banana skin... I think the best attitude to have is to brush it off and move on swiftly because you've paid a lot of money for this holiday and you're not gonna allow some foolish people to ruin a minute of it for you. I am planning to travel alone to the US soon. Wonder what I'll make of it all.
Mandisa <email>
London, Sun 10/15/2006
>>and explain away why germany created a law to refuse citizenship to non white children who are born in germany.<<
The law (http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/rustag/BJNR005830913.html) also refuses citizenship to white children born in Germany under the same circumstances.
One of the parents has to be a German or EU citizen or be a legal resident in Germany for at least eight years.
The same rule for white, black, and green children.
L
Germany Sat 10/14/2006
Answer for Justin
Umm, Justin, you will not have any problems.
I think that's the issue with minorities getting out to see the world because they "feel" they will get mistreated. Do you get overt racism here in the States? Amsterdam is full of bi-racial/multi-racial people. I've been there twice, so you won't feel out of place in the city. So step outside the box and not limit your travels to places where you feel you will be accepted. There are idiots everywhere, but you brush it off and move on.
KW
Los Angeles, CA USA Fri 10/13/2006
Traveling
I am a bi-racial male (black & white). I usually only visit places in the US but have been to Jamaica, Trinidad, and Tijuana. Recently I've been considering traveling to Amsterdam. I just don't feel as though I would be accepted in Europe. I've come accross enough racism in the US, I can only imagine what it could be like in Europe. I have tattoos, and stand out as it is. If anyone has any comments, please let me know. I wasn't aware that so many people think the way I do about traveling. I've known people who have had some terrible experiences in Germany, Russia, and Italy. But I do feel as though we need to think outside the box. Glad I found this site.
Justin <email>
Alexandria, Va USA Thu 10/12/2006
in response to a majority of Americans not travelling: if you think about it, in Europe, the countries are smaller and close by, so it's easier to drive to another country or take a train and flights are probably cheaper since it's a shorter distance to fly. America is isolated, we only have Canda and Mexico and even then it's difficult to get there; it's even difficult to get to the next state sometimes.
in response to Mike, I was also surprised by the billboards and magazine ads in Europe, especially in France...I saw a lot of billboards w/ women of different colors, whether they were black or asian, and it was a beautiful thing to see. I'm a polynesian woman, so I did get a lot of stares and questions, but I never felt like it was something to be scared or ashamed of. I found that a lot of people were just curious...I never felt like people were hostile.
Melaina
CA USA Wed 10/11/2006
Re. "But the thing is, they seem to live on the margins of society and are relegated to street merchants and other undesirable jobs."
C A, they are illegal immigrants. The problem is HUGE particularly in Spain, Italy and Malta.
x
EU USA Sat 10/07/2006
blacks travelling
I'm black and I think it's true that relatively few black Americans travel abroad in my opinion. I'm sure any statistics would show that to be the case. I think most Americans tend to travel only inside the country, and the majority of Americans don't have the passports. I'm sure when it comes to a group that is economically at a disadvantage(black Americans) the numbers are even fewer.
I wouldn't take it as an insult.
C A
USA Thu 10/05/2006
Black People Don't Travel - Say What?
I love reading updates on this site.
This summer while in London, my roomie and I went to Amsterdam for the weekend. We had rented an apartment and were standing outside waiting for someone to answer the door. While waiting, my friend and I were talking and some random guy came up to us and expressed how happy he was to see black American women travelling b/c black people (particularly black Americans) don't travel.
I thought to myself, "excuse me?????!!!!" and I asked him, "where did you get that idea?". And told him there are plenty of black people who travel, but apparently for this guy he had never came across two black women travelling alone. At first I wanted to tell him to F off, but realized that a lot of people whether it be in the States or overseas can live in a closed world, especially if the only information they get about a cultural group is from American media - which often gives a warped portrayal of certain minority groups.
So as a black female, I say it's very important to travel and show other cultures a different view of what they actually see from TV and believe.
KW
Los Angeles, CA USA Thu 10/05/2006
Minority in Europe
a few more comments. A lot of minorities are writing and complaining about being stared at. When I lived in Germany as a kid this happened ALL the time. The older women would even stop my sister and I in stores and rub our faces and hair and say beautiful in German. The kids would point us out to their parents. I don't find this offensive at ALL. There were no rude comments they were just curious. If you go to a country and people are staring at you but not making rude comments do not be offended. Imagine you lived in a place where everyone looked a like then someone who looked different came to visit. You would be very curious. Why be insulted by this. Most of these types of stares are because people are just curious. Many time it is their first time seeing a black person or first time seeing someone attractive of a different race. I have even caught myself staring at some of the beautiful black women I saw in Italy and France and I am black! So don't be so insulted by the stares
MIke <email>
Washington, DC USA Thu 10/05/2006
Minority Travelers
great post. I used to live in Germany as a kid for 8 yrs. I was in Europe again in 85,90,91 last year and will be there again next year 2007. I have been to Sweden,Denmark,Norway,Switzerland, Turkey,Greece,England,Netherlands,Spain,Italy,Austria and Belgium. What I have found is the most attitude I get is from other Americans. Most of them do not like the fact I am there. I get looks from them like " what are you doing here?". For the most part the Europeans are friendly. Only problem I can think of was in Barcelona. First time I went there was serious attitude from the people. I was there last year and things seemed to be better but still some attitude. I read the problem is Barelona used to be ruled by Moors for a long time. Moors are darker skinned. When the Barcelonians regain ruled they always hated that they were ruled by moors. This is why they have this attitude. Aside from this what I have found is that if you dress well and attempt to at least learn to say hello and do you speak English in their native tongue people are helpful and friendly. I did not find the Norwegians and Swedes to be very outgoing but this is because it is a cold climate and people there tend to be distant takes a while for them to warm up to foreigners. I am a black male but have seen plenty of white European men with dark beautiful black women. They don't seem to get disdained looks from others at all. Most of these mixed type of marriages I have seen in France,Italy Germany, Netherlands and of course England. What I do find interesting is the number of advertisements and billboard with beautiful dark skin female models. When I was in Europe last year. Naomi Campbell was on the cover of Elle and that magazine was in Spain, Italy, France, Greece. I saw it prominently dispalyed in all countries. In fact In Greece at the airport there was literally an entire wall advertisement with a picture of Naomi Campbell. considering there aren't that many minorities there for them to have to publish this it is amazing. Even in America with plenty of Americans there aren't many billboards with African Americans on them. Interested in reading others thoughts I haven't been to Poland or the eastern European countries I hear things aren't so friendly there.
Mike <email>
Washington, DC USA Thu 10/05/2006
in response to Mandisa
I saw a number of blacks(W. Africans specifically) in Barcelona as well other places in S. Europe. But the thing is, they seem to live on the margins of society and are relegated to street merchants and other undesirable jobs. I didn't care too much for the vibe in Barcelona and somebody threw an orange at my from a Balcony while I was walking through the narrow streets of the Gothic Quarter. I never saw who did it.
C A
USA Sun 10/01/2006
They weren't very friendly in Barcelona
I also went to Barcelona this year and I went earlier in 2004. During both trips I never encountered any friendly Spaniards. I found them very cold and uncaring when asking for directions. Perhaps they just don't care much for tourists. I also had a flatmate who was from Barcelona and she explained that in Spain you rarely see any people of Black African descent. At least compared to London. So it could be that they are just unaccustomed to seeing brown skinned people.
Mandisa
London, UK Sun 10/01/2006
Kos, Greece 2006
I went to Kos in the summer and I did feel a little out of place as there were very few black people there & and I'm the kind of person who doesn't ever like being the centre of attention for whatever reason. Overall the waiters & others in the business were charming as they're mainly interested in the business tourists bring their way. The only people who occasionally stared were other tourists and the locals. I just tried to distract myself by listening to music on my headphones and reading my novel rather than risk eye contact with other unfriendly tourists.
Mandisa
London, UK Sun 10/01/2006
RESPONSE TO JXT
Give europeans the credit for being adults.They are not ruled by dictators.They select their Prime ministers and Presidents.Don't make the pitiful excuse that someone force their citizens into accepting mass immigration.They knew exactly what they were doing when cheap labor was shipped in from foreign countries.If anyone is being used in this situation it would be all those millions of people who are used to prop up economies so all those europeans can enjoy the low cost of buying things cheaply due to cheap labor.If those low paying jobs could be staff by hiring europeans, employers would gladly hire them.A european will not work for the same low wages as a third worlder,just will not happen.All the statistics available prove this point,and to do so means a european would be forced to live at a standard of a newly arrive immigrant.Good luck on finding europeans lineup to live in that way.
Ryan
Tampa, Fl USA Sun 10/01/2006
It was the European political and business elite that made the decision to allow mass immigration of 3rd world people to Europe and are partly to blame here, not the average European. The average European was never asked whether they wanted mass immigration and the average European was opposed to this. There are also no jobs Europeans won't do. Business elites wanted 3rd worlders to work at wages too low for the average European to make and still carry the tax burden and feed their families. Third worlders don't come to Europe to "build it up", they come to make money, plain and simple. Muslims and other don't come to assimilate and often don't try but instead demand that Europe change to accomodate them. Do you think in a Muslim country, they'd put Muslims first for jobs over a Frenchman?? Of course they would yet western countries are supposed to step aside and be happy to give their jobs and country away to foreigners, hardly fair I'd say. Anyway, who can blame the French for wanting to keep France French, or the Germans for wanting to keep it German or the British for wanting to keep it English. Face it , not all cultures are compatable and that is why we're seeing this "clash of civilizations" in France. Things are better if people are allowed their own homelands however in this day in age, only Africans, Asians and Latin Americans are allowed their own homelands, not Europeans are those of Euro ancestry. You want to talk racist, that's racist.
JXT
USA Sat 09/30/2006
Response to JXT
Your opinion about racial acceptance is incomplete because you have omitted the major factor which explain immigration to europe.Most of those from other nations(Asia,Africa,Latin America,Eastern europe)who live and work in western europe have immigrated legally.They come over on work visas given jobs that most western european citizens will not accept.They are the staff who work as waiters in the many France & Germany resturants.They are the field hand who work on the farms in Swizerland and Great Britain.Millions of hard working people from the third world giving their blood,and sweat to provide a better life for their family, and to aid the economy of the adopted nation in which they reside.For all this devotion inturn they are spat upon and demeened for only one reason,difference of ethnicity.Many people want to say or think that it is only the illegal aliens who are not wanted or misstreated,but the truth points to the fact that white europeans reject most immigrants soley because of difference due to skin color,religion, and culture differences.Legal immigrants who are muslum, asian,black,or hispanic are not embraced with open arms in europe.Legal or illegal,white europeans discriminate against people who look different from a white western european.If you disagree then explain the riots in France,explain the glass ceiling for hispanics and blacks in the work place in the uk,and explain away why germany created a law to refuse citizenship to non white children who are born in germany.A very strange law considering germany is a country experiencing a shortage of young people.The average age of a german is higher due to fewer german white children being born.The growth of any nation is the continuence of the national birth rate.How weird is that law which deny acceptance of people who were born in the same nation as other germans? Europeans love everyone to visit europe because they want our money,they just don't want you to become to comfortable and entertain the idea of living in europe.That would be going too far!
Ryan
Tampa, Fl USA Sat 09/30/2006
"European whites are not the only racist but they are more often than any other ethnicity to view people based on race.Maybe its due to their lack of exposure to ethnic diversity"
I disagree, whites in European(and other) countries have had, without their permission, the forced immigration of large numbers of non-whites with differing cultures and languages. Latin America, Asia or Africa simply don't allow other races to immigrate thus they don't have problems. Imagine is Mexico or Pakistan or Nigeria suddenly had huge numbers of whites or whatever coming into the country to live. They'd be very resentful.
I also find it very hard to believe Americans in Europe would be staring at blacks as they certainly would have seen them in the US.
JXT
USA Sat 09/30/2006
No problems in Italy
Just a little update from a recent trip to Italy. I'm a black male. I had no problems. I had always heard about issues of racism with Spain and have heard a few reports about Greece, so Italy being right between was somewhat apprehensive about what I might find. But I had an awesome time. I went to Rome, Florence, Cinque Terre, Venice and nobody treated me badly. Most people I interacted with were friendly. There may have been a couple times that I got some unexplained looks that were longer than what was comfortable, but those were very much the exception, and I might just as soon get the same in a small town right here in America. Blacks travellers should have no problems in Italy, at least the central and northern part, I didn't make it the south. I've heard that Sicily even makes some whites uncomfortable! One thing I'll note, while in Cinque Terre, I had met a few other travellers at my hostel, a couple of white females. I got a lot of looks when out with them, but I think it was mostly from the American tourists who behave exactly the same at home anyhow. I think some Italians were staring too, but it was mostly the Americans from what I could tell. You'd see them with their white socks, sneakers and tshirt tucked in shorts turning their heads as we walked by. No biggie, but just reporting what I observed. I would like to go to Spain next year and I'm hoping all the reports of the racism there are exaggerated!
C.A.
USA Fri 09/29/2006
Racism
Correction: should have read......."does not apply to all european whites,just far too many of them"
Ryan
Tampa, fl USA Fri 09/29/2006
Racism
European whites are not the only racist but they are more often than any other ethnicity to view people based on race.Maybe its due to their lack of exposure to ethnic diversity.Austria is a big offender of racial bias.I wish it wasn't true but the facts support this statement.Certainly does apply to all european whites,just far too many of them demonstrate anti social behavior.Asians Americans,African Americans,and Latino Americans are more open to interracial dating than white europeans because those three groups are less racially bias.I hope white europeans can learn to evolve so they will understand and appreciate the beauty of true brotherhood.
Ryan
Tampa, Fl USA Fri 09/29/2006
True, it seems only Europeans or those of European ancestry are accused of being racist. However, most non-white run countries allow little if any immigration of other ethnic groups,most non-white countries favor their own ethnic group and could care less about being racist to other groups. Only whites care about being fair when it comes to race. Also, it's true, blonde-haired blue-eyed white person would NEVER be accepted in Japan, even if they were born and raised there.
JXT
USA Thu 09/28/2006
Japan/China
C Chan, I would also like to add the other side of the equation. I am british and currently reside in China.
The Chinese have a hard time accepting foreign born ethnic Chinese from the UK/Canada/USA as foreigners. Quite often they are turned down for English-teaching jobs for not being 'proper' foreigners, for instance.
Also, would a blonde haired blue eyed kid born in Japan or China ever be accepted as Chinese or Japanese? I doubt it.
Not only Europeans are capable of racism.
Matthew <email>
Dalian, Liaoni China Wed 09/27/2006
Parisians
Asian Female in Europe:
Can I just add one thing:
Parisians are rude to everyone! I am a white Briton who lived in paris for a year and found it appallingly rude. Every time I attempted to speak French, they would reply in English. :-(
Matthew Nash <email>
Dalian, Liaoni China Wed 09/27/2006
Mixed age couple
We are a very mixed couple. My husband is muslim (turkish) and early 40s, Im Christian european and late 50's. He looks younger and moves smartly, I look old and move stiffly following a bad accident. he has money - I dont. Yet we run into the sterotypes all the time. Married for her money!. Our relationship has lasted 10 years now and finally the family have come around but other travellers have not. Even hotels want to see our passport documents. I;ve resorted to carrying our marriage cert and a certified translation into 4 languages. Just remember if you see a mixed couple - it may not be what you expect.
Margaretta
New York, USA Tue 09/26/2006
Belfast, Glasgow, Edinburgh???
So this question has been bugging me for a long time. Is Belfast, N.I. as racist as I read/hear about? I'm an Anthropology major, w/ an emphasis in archaeological science and my professor takes students to archaeological sites, and one of them is in Northern Ireland. I really want to go, but I'm a little worried about racism...i've heard about homemade bombs being thrown at pregnant minority women.
Also, I was thinking about studying abroad in Scotland, either Glasgow or Edinburgh...any advice/comments about either city?
As for my two cents about travelling around Europe, London was great! It felt just like home (i'm from L.A.) because it's really diverse. Although when taking the tube, I constantly got asked about my ethnicity (I'm Samoan)...people were always asking if i was Hawaiian.
Windsor was my favorite place, everyone was so nice! I was a little scared because it was a small town, but everyone was friendly.
Paris was absolutely great, another favorite of mine. I thought Parisians were going to be rude, especially when they would hear my american accent, but they were always very curious, always asking me questions. I went to Sephora and had a lot of makeup artists complementing my skin tone and wanting to do my makeup
Lucerne was absolutely beautiful, and while the people i encountered were very friendly, i felt awkward because I don't speak a word of German and I was constantly hearing German all around me.
Italy was the worst for me, not because I experienced any racism, but because it was so damn hot there! the Italian men were very flirty...I even had some of them follow me and my friends around, giving us cat calls and what not. Some even followed us to our hotel, which was very scary (we by passed the hotel so that our stalkers wouldn't know where we were staying) The Italian women were the worst, I'm sorry to say. They are very beautiful, but their attitudes just completely ruin it for them. THey didn't have any problems being nice to the boys though.
Kionasina <email>
Los Angeles, CA USA Mon 09/25/2006
I just want to take some time to thank Rick Steves for creating this message board and applaud the openness and honesty of the individuals that have posted here. People of color should travel everywhere and not feel completely prohibited by the anecdotal experiences of others, however, you have every right to know the social climate of an area you are seeking to travel-be prepared for what you May expect/encounter. Further to those that post, for me, humbly it is never a sign of oversensitivity but concern for the subsequent travels of others by detailing your Human reactions and responses abroad. Thank you.
Mike
Southfield, MI USA Mon 09/25/2006
Vienna
KW, My husband and I were in Austria a year and half ago and my husband was treated terribly by passport control on the train (we came from Munich). My husband is black-latino from Panama and travels with a panamanian passport/american green greed. I am white american. It was like they almost tried to start a fight with him but he remained calm.
Vienna was an okay city. We were glad we went but cut short our time, the people weren't very nice and we were treated quite rudely in stores, etc. Salzburg and Innsbruck were fine. We didn't have any problems there.
NYC, USA Mon 09/25/2006
Vienna Comment
Don't let my statements deter you from visiting Vienna. It is a beautiful city, with lovely architecture, but not a place I will want to run back to for my next holiday.
KW
Los Angeles, CA USA Fri 09/22/2006
Living in Vienna for Person of Color
To the male asking about living in Vienna, it depends. I recently visited Vienna this summer while I was working as a volunteer in London. This was my second time going to Austria, but first in Vienna. I really did not care for the atmosphere.
I stayed with two Brits in Vienna and they gave me some of the low-down on the social aspects in Austria. Apparently a lot of Africans, Turks and now Eastern Europeans get looked down on a lot. A lot of this has to do with crime (whether it's illegal immigration and other happenings)apparently and these are "supposedly" the main groups that have the issues.
I had an incident in Salzburg where a "supposedly" undercover police officer asked for my identification. I was the only black person on the my carriage. I noticed there were two Asian women and another lady in my carriage, but he didn't ask them to pull out their ID. Once he realized I was from the States he left me alone. When I inquired the two Brits about this, they mentioned that African people get a lot of guff from the authority.
I could go on and on about the stories I was told.
For me Vienna is plainly bland and too backwards for my taste. I really have no interest of visiting Austria again. First time I went I had a ball. Second time, not so sure this time. It's something about the atmosphere I did not care for. It's a bit stale for my taste and not progressive in some areas socially.
KW <email>
Los Angeles, CA USA Fri 09/22/2006
Asian-American Men in Europe
Basically, it's like this: it's open-season on Asian males in Europe and the Americas.
You can say whatever racist thing you want to Asian men and it's not considered "racist." In fact, I remember getting the "Chinaman" "Jap" treatment in London, Paris, and every other city in Europe. People just don't care because Asian men (especially from Asia) generally aren't violent at all and will "ignore" it.
Cliff
Redondo Beach, CA USA Thu 09/14/2006
Croatia
I am an Asian American male who travelled through Europe this spring. I got curious stares almost everywhere, but generally people were quite respecting of me. However, I would like to note that my worst experiences were by far in Croatia. Not only did I get the constant stares, but when I went to Plitvice Park, I got constant taunting by the younger folk being called "china" or "Japan" in a very derogatory way. People (eg. buying bus tickets or hostel staff), while most spoke English, seemed quite rude in general.
Cal
Austin, TX USA Wed 09/13/2006
I love Italy
I just returned from a 10 day tour of Venice Florence and Rome. I love Italy after our visit. We are an African American fem and White Male couple. This is our second trip to Europe and we just fell in love with Italy. We didn't get any bad experiences (don't stay at Ars Hotel in Rome--jerks) from the Italians. Actually, we were treated well wherever we went. We didn't get any funny stares or the "look" like you get in the states. There aren't a whole lot of blacks in Florence or Venice, but a lot of Africans in Rome. So that was interesting to see and appreciate. I would definitely go back to Italy. Plus, the men make a woman feel real good...
pamela <email>
alexandria, va USA Mon 09/11/2006
Asian-American in Morocco
I know Morocco isn't a European destination or country but since it's so close to Spain, some people decide to go there.
As a Korean-American I went to Morocco in hopes of learning and experiencing the Islamic culture and the Moroccan way of life. But beware, everyone will automatically classify you as either a Japanese or Chinese tourist and will yell "JAPAN" or "CHINWA" in a very derogative way. And if no one yells anything at you, they will stare at you as if you were an alien from Mars or Venus.
I mean I can understand if they're just interested because they've never met an Asian person before or something, but I would get some of the nastiest looks I have ever received. It would've been one thing if it was just a rare occurrence, but it seemed to happen all the time from everyone. So in my experience, avoid Morocco unless you look Arabic or Anglo-Saxon.
CA USA Thu 09/07/2006
RACISM IN EUROPE
Marie,don't you think it to be a over statement of fact to think spain is as racially accepting compared to other European countries?If you were talking about Scandinaivia then you would be correct in saying how enclusive they are,but Spain has a long racist track record.Incident after incident we continue to learn of racially charged acts against people of color in Spain.All one need do is google racism in Spain,and see the hugh problem in that country.I also have to agree with the poster who thought the British to be very anti american,many british are friendly and kind people however there is a hugh amount of resentment for americans in many areas of the uk,especially in rural regions. Liberal London is but a small section of the whole country,step out side of London and there are many british voices waiting to offer a negative statement about our government and americans in general.Not saying don't travel to these places,just go well informed and understand the country and its people.
Philip
Denver, Co USA Fri 09/01/2006
Vienna, Helsinki
Vienna, Helsinki
Anyone know what these two cities are like to live in for a non-white male?
Joe
Chicago, IL USA Thu 08/31/2006
Brits Are Just Like Us
I am a person of color and have been
to the UK on numerous occasions - mostly to London and I have never had a negative experience. Brits of all colors and backgrounds have been very nice and cordial to me. From time to time, I would meet someone with a sad or sour expression but when they heard my American accent they would break into a huge smile! Just like here
in the States there are jerks all over -
don't let people's negative comments stop you. Same thing with Spain - a relative of mine went there 2 years ago and stayed with a family - not one negative experience.
Marie <email>
Atlanta, GA USA Wed 08/30/2006
DO BRITS DISLIKE AMERICANS?
I need to hear experiences from those of you that have lived or traveled in England.I'm told over and over how disagreeable the brits are when interacting with Americans.That anti-americanism is par for the course for most Americans who visit the uk.My only experience being around the brits took place on vacation in miamibeach,a siuation that normally should find most people on their best behavior and in good spirits.But even during that experience, I met brits who were very very opinionated and what they had to say about America and Americans was not good.What do you say,are brits a bunch of stuffy hard to be around people? If you wanted the experience of living in Europe would you consider basing your self in Great Britain?P.S.,many brits complain about americans but yet they love coming to America on vacation.Are they really that confuse?
Thanks
Ray
Orlando, Fl USA Wed 08/30/2006
England Racism - 1990, 2005 & 2006
I am Trinidadian of South Asian descent.Trinidad is an ex-British colony so we speak English.
I first visited England when I was 10. Most of the time was in London, which was quite nice. On one visit to Kent in 1990 I was refused service in a hobby store. All I wanted was the price of a model kit and before I could finish asking, the white male clerk, about 30, shouted "NO!". I tried again, and he repeated "NO!". At age 10 I didn't know what racism was, so I asked again, this time my mother was behind me. The man finally responded with rolled eyeballs and a heavy sigh "Oh all RIGHT ...the price is 12 pounds".
I thought of this incident many times as I got older but rationalised it as a busy man not paying attention to a silly child - just to make it easier and less hurtful. That was until last year.
I went to London on a business trip (June 2005). I went to a bookstore in Tottenham Court Road about 10am and was confronted by the clerk when I asked if the store was open. He was a bald, thin man who literally kicked me out of the store saying "all you Indians are the same! You don't want to pay for anything! GET OUT!" and he followed me onto the street. I was horrified.
10 days ago (August 2006)I went to Lincoln on another business trip. As I got out the railway station I made a wrong turn and got lost. I stopped to ask the man who was following me, a 50+ year old, the directions to the Mariott. Before I could finish "Excuse me sir, could you..." He rudely shouted "No! No!" and dismissed me with his hands and continued walking.
I was shocked at this since I only wanted directions and he just brushed me off like an insect! I was deeply hurt for the rest of my trip.
Walking around Lincoln I got the "Hate Stares". Before reading this forum I didn't know there was a term for it. I just wondered why people would menacingly glare at me! I never did anything to them, why would someone just randomly hate me?
Trinidadians are not used to this overt racism and it is a concept we can't fathom. I have been to many conservative US states and worked there but never had the overt racism as in England. I am sure the rest of Europe is not better.
In the US, people may hate you but it is not shown or acted upon as frequently perhaps because of strict deterrent laws for hate crimes. In the UK their lax laws agianst hate crimes encourage hooliganism.
I am still sad and confused of how such a significant portion of people (clearly not a minority) can hold so much animosity since this is abnormal where I come from. What was it in their upbringing that caused this? In the US there is a plantation legacy, but this was not the case in the UK.
Are English/UK white people born racist? This would explain their drive to colonization. If they didn't learn their lesson after WWII then nothing would change them.
Michael
Port-of-Spain, Trinidad Thu 08/17/2006
Racism in Poland or anywhere
Sometimes ignorance is bliss. I'm Filipino, married to a Caucasian. We went to Spain in 2001 before I started reading Graffiti Wall, so had no preconception about supposed racism in Spain. Well, I encountered none. If I had anticipated racism, I might have misconstrued any ordinary rudeness as racism. It's best to go with an open mind and see for yourself. Be respectful of the country you visit, be on your best behavior and act with discretion always. I too am going to Poland in a few weeks. I have no reservations about going and enjoying myself.
LMcQ
San Diego, CA USA Sat 08/12/2006
poland?
Any ideas on Poland? I (asian-american female) am planning to go to Gdansk, Poland. I am kinda scared by reading some posts.
Emerald
Washington D.C., USA Sat 08/12/2006
Asian men, Asian women in Europe
Asian women don't get the fetish treatment that they get in North America, with the exception of perhaps France. In fact, most European men think that an Asian women with a white guy is a Thai whore. Basically, a lot of losers end up with Asian women, so Asian women are seen as the bottom of the barrell in terms of what a guy can get.
Contrast that to North America where a lot of white guys lust after Asian women.
It's quite funny because as an Asian guy (by Asian, I mean oriental), I dated more white girls in continental Europe than almost every white or black ex-pat I know. I must have dated close to 30 white European girls in my 2 years there. Now I know what Asian girls in the US feel like, and I have to say, I wasn't complaining!
asianguy
New York, NY USA Thu 08/10/2006
Best Cities to travel to alone safely
Hi I'm single black female. I will be travel for my job to Boulogne Paris. I will be there for 3 months and would like to see many of the neighboring countries during my weekends. Unforunately I will have to do this on my own.
What cities would you suggest for a lone black female?
Also are there tour packages designed for women or tourists going it alone on a weekend?
Sharon <email>
Princeton, NJ USA Thu 08/10/2006
To ESE
I'm Filipino-American and I had no problem travelling to Spain. I've been to Madrid twice and Barcelona 3 times. I found some people who went out of their way to help us with directions or to recommend a restaurant or show. It seems like the people in Barcelona were friendlier than those from Madrid. I dont remember an incidents where I felt uncomfortable. I found it amusing though that in Spain they sell a dark chocolate cookie snack called Filipino.
ML
Los Angeles , CA USA Wed 08/09/2006
Asian Female in Europe
I traveled to London, Paris and Geneva for four weeks and had a very eye-opening experience as a Korean-American.
London: No overt racism here, however, like most cities in Europe there is an assumption that you don't speak English if you look asian, which is annoying. Also, the men here do not seem interested in Asian girls at all. In the US I get checked out regularly, but in London less so.
Paris: A real dissapointment because I speak decent French. French people are not only rude (also France has really bad customer service) they are also not accepting of asians. They are accepting of travellers who are white or latina, but not asians or blacks. A teenaged boy actually shouted "Hey Japan" at me, which left me really disgusted. Also, in a store I was conversing with a saleswoman in French and explained to her that I was from the US, and she started talking about Japan, again assuming I was a Japanese tourist. I really didn't appreciate these incidents and they quite turned me off to France.
Switzerland: Not surprisingly, the least racist place of the three cities. They truly are a neutral people. I didn't feel invisible here the way I did in Paris and to a lesser extent London.
For our honeymoon, my fiance and I are considering going to Venice, which looks beautiful, but I am wary because I have heard that Italians can also be racist. Also, my fiance is caucausian, so we are a mixed race couple, and I am not sure how we will be treated. Any asians have comments on Venice?
korean traveler
washington, dc USA Mon 08/07/2006
Paris Incident
May be it's tru for some Europeans. But would they view a White American as "British, Polish, German, Russian etc and laught at them". I think not. I've travelled to Europe extensively for business and pleasure, and found it to be overall a friendly place, with some minor and occassional inicdents, except Spain, where racism is pretty open and overt. Please, do travel the world, and don't let these issues stop you. Most of the world is a beautiful place and most of the people are good. Ignore the racist and the bigotted, don't allow them to spoil your day. Travel smart and be careful, but don't get paranoid. Happy travels.
Carol
Chicago, USA Fri 08/04/2006
Paris Incident
Europeans tend to view ethnicity and nationality as the same thing. Americans tend to view nationality as what your passport indicates.
Minority Defender
Miami, FL USA Thu 08/03/2006
An incident in Paris
This happened on our first trip to Paris several years ago and to this day we are still not quite sure what to make of this: I am Chinese-American and my husband is Japanese-American. Many people we met in Europe automatically assumed we are Japanese, which I guess is understandable. But when we were waiting in line to go up the Eiffel Tower, the guy checking tickets asked us (in English), "Japanese?" and we told him no we are American. At that he just started laughing loudly (and somewhat repulsively). We never found out the reason of his bizarre response to this seemingly simple exchange, because he was laughing so hard he seemed to be running out of breath. Any thoughts on that?
C Chan
Los Angeles, CA USA Wed 08/02/2006
I think how the races or interracial couples are treated depends not on whether they are in the USA or Europe but whether it is urban or more rural. At least, that's from the perspective of many I know who have been in interracial relationships . Large European cities such as London, Amsterdamn etc. as well as NYC, Los Angeles, Miami are such that nobody bats an eyelash at those who are of different races or are in interracial relationships because you have so many different types of people. However, in more rural conservative areas, whether in Europe or North America or anywhere where you don't have lot of different people, attitudes may be more conservative in this area.
Robin
USA Wed 08/02/2006
I love London!
My husband and I had an extradordinary time during our visit to London. We are a mixed couple and no one treated us unfairly. As a matter of fact, I thought that we were treated better than the way mixed couples in the USA are treated. We explored the city using public transportation and we even took a train ride to Windsor Castle.
Actually, we have visited West Germany, Belgium, and Amsterdam as well. Everyone treated us well in all of these places. Believe me I always have my radar up due to being in an interracial relationship. However, Europeans are so much more accepting and open-minded. We had a terrific time in the places that we visited.
Do not allow other people's ignorance to stop you from exploring the world or from traveling to Europe. I had the best time of my life there and we plan to go back to visit other places.
txgal <email>
Houston, TX USA Tue 08/01/2006
London - Asian, Black Men
I'm really sorry that anyone has a bad time in London. Racism is totally unacceptable anywhere, anytime and under any circumstances. Trashy behaviour is not acceptable and the colour of a person's skin is not a defining factor. In London ( and anywhere else on this planet ) phrases such as "white trash" and "Indian/Pakistani trash" are also utterly unacceptable. I have no desire to be disrespectful to anyone but those words and attitudes are shameful.
Al Bishop
Nottingham, UK Mon 07/31/2006
London - Asian, Black Men
I'm an Asian-American guy who went out in London. During the day, London is a great place, very diverse, tons of tourists.
By night, you get basically enormous amounts of "white trash" and "Indian/Pakistani trash" from the outskirts of London who come in and get rowdy.
I was racially taunted periodically all night long all weekend in the rowdy bar/club areas (since I was with another Asian-American male friend) until they realized I spoke English. Then they'd leave you alone. They just assumed I was a poor Chinese immigrant who didn't speak or understand what they were saying.
Overall, London had a distincty anti-Asian vibe (as in they see you as a lowly dirty Chinese immigrant) at night.
For the Asian guys, I recommend France, Netherlands. You'll get much more respect.
londonbites
New York City, NY USA Thu 07/27/2006
Eastern Europe and your woman
To the Pakistani/Indian who would travel in Eastern Europe... The farther south you go, the less respect you will receive. Go far enough, and as a woman you cease to be a person and become property. Hey, I know that'll be unpopular, but it's the cold hard facts. I wouldn't not go, I just be as careful as you would on the upper east side of Manhattan... Be tough, be careful, be aware, and don't expect alot of help from the cops. (As an odd aside, women friends have said that Turkey is a wonderful exception.)
David
CO USA Tue 07/25/2006
I think there's a difference between traveling and living in Europe. Sure racism exists in Europe, but as an Asian-American tourist traveling in parts of Europe (predominantly Western Europe), I have not encountered any. I have traveled with several times, with my sister; other family; and friends (who are other non-Caucasian ethnicities). We have traveled throughout small towns and large cities in Europe, and sure people are curious to our national origin, but they were never rude or mean spirited. I'm used to these types of questions, as even in parts of the USA people ask me about my national origin.
Jeanie
Bay Area, CA USA Sun 07/23/2006
Pakistani/ Indian Traveling in Eastern Europe
I decided that 2006 would be the year that I would travel over to Eastern Europe (Prague, Budapest, Vienna, and anywhere else that can be a quick day trip). However, unlike my previous trips to Europe I am traveling single, brown, female. I have been reading the forums here and it has got me a little concerned about my saftey in Eastern Europe. To compound that, I am a 27 year old female. Not sure if I should cancel it and change my itenary or stick to it. Advice?
Natasha <email>
san francisco, USA Sat 07/22/2006
A Few Thoughts On Italy
Hello All
I just wanted to say that i'm A Cape Verdean American(which didn't prove much distinction)and just this past Spring Break. Me and my sister went to Italy and we had a wonderful time. This is my second time going and we travelled to all the big tourists cities: Rome, Florence, Venice etc. We had a great time just us two being young women I'm 17 she's 15. We even got lost and ended up in back alley ways and had no trouble. The people were cool now as they were last year. Last time i was with two white girls, an asian girl, and a nigerian girl
The only thing worth commenting on was when two men shouted " I Like Dark Chocolate" as we walked by their stand in a outside flea market.
To all readers. Don't let other people experiences discourage you. Racism lives, its a fact. Just Travel, the world there is such beauty to see. Just remember you're not the only one. People from other countries coming to America might feel the same way.
BTW. We Went to a small medieval town called San Gimingiano(outside of Rome) we had the best Gelato and the people were so nice. I Loved It Much
If Anyone Has any info about good places to go in Portugal please contact me. Thanks
Jazz B <email>
Providence, RI USA Sat 07/22/2006
Blacks in Europe....and USA
USA has stated that he was amazed at the lack of racism that blacks received in Europe. Obviously he has not been in Europe long enough to see beneath the surface and see the reality. African immigrants in Germany are generally treated like trash. As a black American, I managed to avoid seeing much of this racism(though not all of it)because of my Americanness. The point is just because YOU don't see the racism, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
Phil
Hyattsville, MD USA Mon 07/17/2006
Take down the chip?
I am a "euro-american", which of course "colours" my perspective. Having lived in Germany and well traveled throught Europe, I was amazed at the lack of racism shown to most blacks. Seems each country has it's own favorite group with which it has a beef. I will say that most Europeans seem strangly unimpressed when certain Americans refer to themselves as "African-American", and it seems in this column, those are the ones with the biggest grips. And by the way, the last time I was in Spain, I wasn't treated all that warmly either.
Maybe toss the chip, see how the rest of us "americans" get treated, and you'll have a different perspective.
USA Sun 07/16/2006
Racism in Europe
I am a Asian-American (Filipino) and together with my wife and daughter have travelled to Austria, Italy and France. Our experiences in those countries were excellent. We have been talking about going to Barcelona and Madrid, Spain in 2007. I would like to get feedback from the people of the same ethnic background about any negative experiences in Spain because of they were not white. Thanks in advance.
ESE
Bergen County, NJ USA Thu 07/13/2006
Budapest
Budapest has been cool. A lot of stares and some racial comments,but its been more postive than negative. Wroclaw,Warszawa,Jelenia Gora, Gdansk,Tarnow which are all cities in Poland, which are great to visit, also a lot of staring, but mostly out of curiosity. Wroclaw is a great city to visit because of its tragic history,and being a "gateway city" Prague,Budapest,Vienna, can all be reached from Wroclaw in a few hours. Poland is an intersting country for an African -American tourist. This is my third summer in Poland. I travel here alone, a few racial ephitets have been tossed my way,but most people were friendly towards me. In short Poland and Hungary have been safe places for me to travel. I followed common sense and have not had any serious situations. I recommend visiting both countries. I will visit Belgrade and see how safe it is for an African American male tourists. It seems that will be the only way to get my question regarding Belgrade answered. Wish me luck.
Jamal
Wa USA Thu 07/13/2006
Central/Eastern Europe
I visited Central/Eastern Europe in August of 2005. I went with my boyfriend to Warsaw, Krakow, Prague, and Budapest. We are both asian (filipino).
I first clued in once we boarded our plane (Polish Airlines) and realized that we were the only colored people on the whole plane! However, once we were getting off the plane, a young Polish gentleman wished us well and said "enjoy your stay in Poland!".
Once we started walking around the city, we immediately noticed the stares. Even if we stared back at the people staring at us, they would not look away. They would just keep on staring. Little children would point at us and tell their parents about us until a whole family would be staring at us! However, I do realize that people just stared at us out of curiosity. I never experienced any animosity during my travels in all of these cities. I actually found the locals to be very helpful and accommodating. It took a while to get used to it, but I eventually learned to just ignore the stares.
I frequently visited this forum before going on this trip and I knew what to expect. I was scared to go but I'm glad I still went. I hope that fear doesn't prevent people from travelling and experiencing new countries!
Vancouver, CANADA Wed 07/12/2006
My Take On Europe: France, Austria, Italy
I am a Black American female and have been to France, Austria, and Italy.
I stayed in Cannes for a month in 98' while studying dance with some girls from my predominantly black dance school. Although we did encounter some racism from a few of the students, it wasn't enough to keep me from saying that that summer was THE best summer of my life (now mind you, I'm only 19, so my life hasn't been THAT long, but it was still a blast nonetheless). People treated me so kindly there, even though I knew NO french, and one guy at an ice cream stand didn't even make me pay for my cone when he saw I was having trouble counting my francs. I especially loved Cannes because it was the first time I could go out with a friend of a similar age without having to worry about being abducted, or anything of the like. I could never do that at home, and that safety really made me love the place even more.
In 2002 I went to Gratz with my white friend and her mother (who is from Gratz). Again, I had a wonderful time, I met a lot of nice people, and a random salesperson even regarded me as beautiful in German. She didn't know English and my german was terrible, but that was one word I did know, and it made me feel more comfortable and even kind of more accepted in an area where even the African immigrants didn't look like me. Ok, so i DID have one incident with a couple of Neo-Nazis. My friend and I were waiting for a bus when they approached us and started speaking with such animosity, animosity that was evident from their tone, towards me. My friend would later tell me in sparse detail what they said (even though I know they said more because her reaction towards them was one of complete horror), but MOST IMPORTANTLY was WHO randomly came to our rescue; two old Austrian women came to our rescue, that's who. They treated me as if I was their long lost grandchild by hugging me, smiling at me, pinching my cheeks, asking me in very broken English whether I was english, and basically using their bodies as barricades from these other scary individuals. Mind you, I was utterly perplexed while this was happening because from my experience in Gratz thus far, the Austrians had been very reserved people. Still, I will never forget those guardian angels who looked after us until the bus came, and it just goes to show you that there are good people and ignorant people all over this world, and you can't let the foolishness of a few mar your impressions of an entire society.
Italy was great as well. It was an excursion to the beach that was only supposed to be three days but lasted a week. We drove from Austria to a beach town in Northern Italy and although I didn't notice any overt racism (and I am a VERY observant person), once, my friend's mother, the Austrian, kept screaming (yes screaming) about German "red necks" on the boardwalk and made us get off the boardwalk and walk by the beach instead. I got picked up on a lot by Italian men, but nothing too intense, which probably had more to do with the fact that I had just turned 15. We also went to Venice, which was crowded, but also very beautiful (even in all its grime it was beautiful), and haggled down a gondola fare so cheap, that when the man asked for change from the guy in the next boat over, even he couldn't believe his ears. Our gondola rower was soooo great, and particularly nice to me... but then again, Italian was the one language I did have a natural flare for...
Well anyway, just know if you're a Black woman who doesn't look like an immigrant, you are going to get stared at, A LOT. Everywhere I've gone I've been stared at, even in Mexico where you would think they've seen black people before (apparently not by how hard some folks were staring. I'm talking about people coming out of their shops to stare at you until you turn the corner and are out of sight). Just get used to it. Still, know that most of the stares are out of curiosity and nothing else. Also, be aware that cultures are different everywhere and that strangers in foreign places like Austria, or even Italy, aren't going to wave and maybe have a nice little chat with you like they would in some parts of North Carolina. If your worried, plan a trip to NYC. If you can handle NYC, you can handle anywhere on this planet.
One more thing, obviously, my last trip to Europe was in 2002. This year, and in the near future, I would particularly be even more careful and watchful traveling as a minority in Europe. From the current events I've been observing, Europe is going through some cultural and economic shifts and changes and saying you're an American when you're a minority may actually work in your favor (something I never boasted in all my other trips abroad, before). In any case, be smart about every decision you make. I'm sensing some especially rough times for Europe's minorities in the future.
Farrah
MD/NYC USA Tue 07/11/2006
Racism in Europe
I have traveled to Europe only twice and each was a different experience. I studied abroad in Valencia, Spain for 6 weeks during my college years and can't say I experienced any racism that was noticeable (to me anyways) and as an African-American woman from the southern US, I'm always on the look out for it. I do notice that when traveling with a largely white group there is a buffer present at times. However Valencia proved to be very nice for me, possible more tolerant because we were in a very "college" setting. I believe the other Spanish students living in our dorm were standoffish because we were American and they had experienced the crazy behavior of American college students in past years.
However, a 4 day excursion to Barcelona was not so grand. While going out with friends (college girls dressed for clubbing), the various prostitutes would spit behind us as we walked by. All of these prostitutes were of African descent and this annoyed me enough to cancel my trip out and take a cab back to the dorms. However, the young "Spanish" prostitutes actually started conversations with us and were quite friendly. It was definitely weird in that way, and I can't say I had a splendid time in Barcelona.
This fall I am planning to work in Madrid for six months and planning for my boyfriend to come along. I am sure that my Spanish language skills help me but I am a bit worried because he is significantly darker with dreads- and significantly more intolerant of people with racist attitudes.
Hopefully, we'll have a fun and interesting trip since this will be his first time traveling overseas.
BG
Phoenix, AZ USA Sat 07/08/2006
Spain and Spaniards (to: Emilio)
I was born in London and I am british because of that but my parents are Spaniards. As I am a white person I have not experienced racism but I have experienced intolerance in Spain because people assume I do not speak a word of Spanish if I tell them where I am from (Even though I do not even have an accent in either English or Spanish).
I am treated sometimes in Spain as a "guiri"...(it means foreigner)...and some people refuse to call me by my name...instead they refer to me as "el ingles" (eg: the English man). In London there is racism towards non whites, yes...but it is not so unabashed and in your face like in Spain.
Also, it's not just with non whites. Spaniards don't seem to understand that it can be perfectly normal to go out and have a drink BY YOURSELF...so yes, I also get stares, etc...as I am a bit of an "Eccentric" in their eyes. My advice? Continue being how you are and take every opportunity to make fun...
PS: My parents, as I said, are Spaniards...and they agree with me and the attitudes of Spain...even they, because they have been away for so long, are sometimes treated as foreigners by our own family!
Not Relevant
London, England Sat 07/08/2006
Re:Emilio opinion about Spain
Racism in Spain is by far worse than all the other countries in western Europe.You would know this better if you are on the recieving end of hatred.To think racism in Spain is the same as in the USA, is to be in denial.I have been to Spain on a few occasions and stayed in several European capitals.Not one time did I feel Spain had changed for the better between the years from my first visit to my last stay in 2005. Steer clear of Spain if you want a fun vacation and to experience live and let live people.
Jeff
Atlanta, GA USA Sat 07/08/2006
Croatians Gone Mad
I was in Bol, Hvar, Split and Brac. It was an awesome experience, but in some ways it left a sour taste in my mouth about traveling with white friends who chose to behave clueless and insensitive about how I was treated in that country. I read with interest about the woman who traveled there and had similar experiences of people staring at her.
I'm an African American woman and have been living in London for almost three years now. I've traveled quite a bit since moving here from the East Coast USA. But nothing prepared me for going to a country where I would be the only black person on an entire group of islands. On the ferries that zip you from island to island, children AND their parents would flat out stare w/o blinking. When I changed seats, they followed me. A man took pictures of me in the public bathroom while I was on Hvar and others snapped pictures while I was walking down the street. Another man driving a car almost hit a pedestrian because he was so busy staring at me.Teenagers sang "play that funky music white boy" when they saw me sunbathing with my companions on the beach. It was totally crazy and relentless. I was there for 10 days and I was ready to go after 5.
But what was more upsetting than anything were my so-called friends who told me I was imagining all this rude behavior from the Croatians. Their attitude made me feel really alone and helpless and ganged-up on. I will definitely go back to more Eastern European countries and maybe back to Croatia, but now know I have to travel with folks who are senstive enough to recognize and acknowledge that people do sometimes treat you diffrently when you don't look like them. For the white people reading this, please keep this in mind when traveling with your non white friends.
CD <email>
London, England Wed 07/05/2006
Spanish Racists
I lived in Spain before. I can tell you the Spanish ARE racist. You should see the way they look down on immigrants from South America, especially the ones who have more Indian blood than European.
Also recall the monkey chants by Spanish fans during various football matches, INCLUDING the recent match between France and Spain, whenever a black football player touched the ball.
Are all Spanish people racists? Of course not.
Will they lynch you on sight? Definitely not.
Did I get called all sorts of names and did a black female from my program leave pre-maturely because of the constant shouts, racial slurs, and stares? Most definitely.
It's not the lynch mob that we're afraid of today.
It's the gentle prejudiced wind that blows against you everyday which defeats your spirit and makes you WEARY at the abuse/slights.
To be fair it's no different than a white or black person in Asia.
But we're talking about Europe here. And the Spaniards (as well as other Southern Europeans) really take the cake in terms of racial ignorance.
nomadics <email>
USA Tue 07/04/2006
I don't know if this forum is a mock up or there is an agenda at work by various people here. But I am from Spain, and I can assure everyone testimonies of racist being rampant, or even a problem in Spain are a load of rubbish of indescribable proportions.
Has a person from an ethnic background experienced abuse in Spain? I'm sure they have. No nation in the world is free of such incidents. Is it worse in Spain than in other countries? No way Jose. No worse than the rest of Europe, and certainly no worse than the USA.
I have lived more than half my life in Spain and a good chunk of it in London, and I have visited the US five times so I believe I know what I'm talking about.
Emilio Tarancon
London, UK Mon 07/03/2006
Racism in Europe
Reading this forum has been very interesting. I am a Black African American Male and have been to Europe many times. I am currently in Spain and I work for the airlines. Much of what is written on here is very accurate, but I believe that a lot of the assumptions are misguided. There is racism in Europe and lot's of it. Europe has always been like that. There is history that supports that they have a serious obsession with ethnic and cultural issues. Let me be the first to say that there have been some half-hearted attempts to equate European racism with racism in America. Let me tell you that it is not the same. In Europe it's much worse because the racism here can literally handicap your economic and social progress if you are not part of the indigenous population. And there is no question the largest receiving group of racism here are those of African descent. It is important however to recognize that not all people are like this. You should come here with an open mind, but be well informed and safe. I wouldn't recommend anyone to travel Europe alone especially if you are a female. I would strongly recommend against any travel to Albania and excercise a lot of caution when traveling to other Eastern European countries. The exception being Hungary. Europe is undergoing some significant social/economic changes here and there is turmoil especially for minorties and immigrants. The governments here have established policy that doesn't allow immigrants to easily assimilate into society. The result is that there is a tremendous welfare state here saturated with immigrant minorities which in no small part as fueled a resurgence in Neo-Nazi fascism and Anti-Semitisim. The best advise I can give is to be smart, brave, bold, hold your head up high and don't let anyone here intimidate you. Remember we are the ones who end up repairing a lot of damage created by Europeans. Many African Americans died during both World Wars and made significant contributions to protecting them when they were frozen with fear under the threat of the Soviet Empire. We know that their real default position is that of the "rescued" and they know it as well. Agressive and rude Europeans will submit if you show them that you are not intimidated and you can hadle yourself. I am not saying go out there and act pompous or without manners, but know your rights. It is they who want to become more like us and not the other way around. Never forget that. To be balanced there are many nice people here and believe it or not many Spanish acknowledge the issues of racism and immigration. Many will openly discuss the issue but have no personal vendetta against you. Europe has a lot to offer, great places to visit, beautiful scenery, culture, history and art. There is much to be gained here, so educate yourself with many resources on line, have a plan for a good vacation, travel in groups of two as a minimum and have a nice trip.
Brooklyn, NY USA Sun 07/02/2006
:Portugal and racism
Lets get the historical prospective out of the way first.Portugal like many countries hundreds of years ago was deeply involve in the slave trade.Nothing new there for sure.America and many European countries invaded and imported slaves for profit.Portugal's role in the slave trade took a specific route,they were the main slave traders for much of South America which explain why there are so many people of African decent in several countries in the Americas..Brazil alone today has more people of African heritage than all the African Americans living in the USA.Brazil was heavily populated by the Portugess which explain why, Portugess is the national language of Brazil.As a visitor to Portugal in 2006, it is obvious that the African heritage is apart of their liniage.Portugess are a very very attractive folk with a mixing of African,European and Arab ethnicities.They like the Brazilians run the skin colour tone gamit from caucaian,muloto,to the dark complextion.Safe to say that as a person of colour you will not stand out that much, and certainly not in a negative way.You enfact will be a welcomed vistor in most large cities and once they know you are american it will add to your reception.If you're an American female of color be prepared to get hit on by the guys quite often.If you are an american male of color,you will not have a problem in getting the attention of the opposite sex.Portugal is a blast! P.S.,btw,Renaldo,portugal's biggest soccer star,his girl friend is a woman of color. Some people have all the luck!
Hector
Miami, Fl USA Wed 06/28/2006
Portugal as bad as Spain??
Ok, so I understand that Spain may not be the place to be if you're a minority, but I will be studying there next summer anyways. I'm a young black female and I would love to visit as many neighboring countries as I can while I'm in Europe. Portugal is definitely on my list, but are the Portuguese open to different types of people or are they as racist as the Spanish appear to be? Just wondering. I'll be going no matter what, but if anyone has had any experiences (good or bad) in Portugal please share with me!
Casey <email>
Bartlett, IL USA Tue 06/27/2006
Single Asian Guy. European Tour.
I'm an Asian-American guy, tall, single.
Sweden: Totally fine, they all speak English, enjoy speaking English; they might look at you like a 'lowly immigrant' at first, but once they realize you're from the US, their attitude perks up a lot. Swedish women are blonde and cute, but have a cautiousness towards interracial dating. They're probably datable if you live there.
Denmark: Danes are either really cool or really bad. They're clannish. They also hate their own immigrants. AGain, if they think you're an immigrant, they'll stare and give you death glares. If you're a tourist, it's all good. Danish girls seemed alright. No luck with them though.
Germany: Berlin I didn't like. Overrated. Stare in the Eastern part of the city. Western Germany is pretty diverse. I liked it. Some German girls really love Asian guys.
Netherlands: No problem. Great English. They too hate their own immigrants, but like tourists. Dutch girls can be blonde and hot. A few of them really loved me.
France: Paris is no problem. Diverse. If you speak French and you're an Asian guy, it's a great place. For some reason, some French girls have Asian fever.
Spain: Hated it. Nice beaches, but Spaniards think they're better than non-whites. Little do they realize they used to be the white trash of Europe.
nomadics <email>
New York, NY USA Tue 06/27/2006
Been to Slovenia? Help plz!
I was so glad to find a forum like this one! I am a young Sri Lankan Canadian female who has travelled most of Western Europe. In smaller towns there, I have been stared at but never treated rudely. I am currently considering spending an exchange yr abroad in Maribor, Slovenia. Has anyone been to Maribor or Slovenia in general and found negative attitudes towards those of color? I fear being mistaken as a gypsy there and being treated poorly!
Sara
Ontario Canada Sun 06/25/2006
RE:Spain
Spain continues to be one of the most talk about countries in europe when the subject racism is mentioned.Where there is smoke, fire is certainly a possible element to be found near.If you google "racism in spain" lots of information can be found.With so many complaints about the racist climate in Spain, travelers must be concern about their safety if they are willing to visit and see for them self how welcoming Spainiards are toward people of color.Imo, I would go to spain and keep an open mind, but allow the experience to determine your point of view and if racists were to affect my trip then see it for what it is,not over blow the encounter.There are jerks every where,right here in America racism is a every day occurance.Even from your own folk,you can experience discrimination.Hispanics discriminate against our own people all the time.Speaking as a Latino,I see it first hand.Go to spain and treat a idiot like you would in America,write him/her off and move on to the next encounter knowing full well that you are not trying to be everyone's friend.You are looking for friendship with those who have class,people who share something in common with you.Racist scum don't meet the requirements.Spain has its share of nice people like in every nation.Take a chance and maybe it will be worth the trip.But if you do run into racism from a few people in Spain,keep in mind that a few idiots don't reflect on all the people of Spain.You will meet racists in Spain, but who cares!!
Hector
Miami, Fl USA Tue 06/20/2006
Spain
Hey,
I'm a 21 yr old black female and I am trying to plan a trip to europe and I wanted to go to spain and portugal for 5 days, but from what i have read, should i skip the spain trip due to racist sentiments there? The last thing I want is to go all the way there an not enjoy my time. Any advice on traveling there in general? Also if anyone is going to be in Paris for July-Aug. I could use a few travel friends.
just email me thanks.
Tasha <email>
Paris, Tue 06/20/2006
Budapest
I went to Europe in 2003. Budapest, Spain, Italy, France and Malta.
Budapest, was very pleasant. As a black female I never experienced any problems. I took the public transportation and walked the streets alone. No one stared or gave me a second look. I would love to go back. Many speak English and German for the tourist.
I met up with my family in Barcelona, Spain. In one store we were followed around which greatly irritated us. Race was the first thing that we thought of. The sales lady became more friendly after we purchased some items. We went into other stores and were treated fine. Thought it was strange for one cab driver to play the Lenny Kravitz version of American Woman as we were being driven to our destination. I didn't know if I should have been flattered or offended. We walked the streets went to restaurants and museums without stares.
We had no racial issues or problems in France or Malta at all. In Malta the cab drivers might try to take advantage of unsuspecting tourist so be warned.
Rome we ran into a few rude people. But we agreed that wasn't enough to prevent us from returning. I won't return to Spain anytime soon, there are too many other places that I prefer to visit. But I'm glad I got to visit for the experience.
We met another black female travelling alone. I really admired her. She said no one in her family would go with her. Too bad because there's a whole world out there to be explored.
Karen
Los Angeles, CA USA Sun 06/18/2006
Spain a very racist country!!!
Spain appears to be the most racist country in Europe base on how racist Spaniards are toward Black soccer players and visiting tourist.It is a well known fact that skinheads have attack Asians and Black in the costal areas of Spain.If you want to visit Europe,save your self heartache not to mention regret,go to the other countries of Europe and stay clear of the racist people of Spain.
Ryan
Orlando, Florida USA Tue 06/13/2006
Minorities traveling abroad
My experiences traveling abroad have been just that..."experiences". I embrace any & all experiences in my life. They shape & mold me. That said, I have been to quite a few countries & cities abroad & I feel that I've had very good experiences each time. I always try to remember that I'm a guest in someone else's country, town or city. For the most part, I have been received well and it seems that some even go out of their way to get to know me. I have great memories of all the places I have visited. I have never felt threatened or disrespected. As for stares, I get them, too. Usually, with a smile & a wave, you'll get the same in return. I like to harmlessly stare at other people also, so I understand them. A stare means you are interesting looking at the least. More than likely, though, the person staring has never seen anyone as beautiful as you, hehe.
Minorities, don't let apprehensions & bad experiences of others keep you from traveling. The world is becoming more diverse & open minded, so take advantage. Get out there & add one more experience to your life. This is advice from a 34 y.o. human being. (If you need a visual label, I'm an African American Muslim woman).
Can I go, too? <email>
Charleston, WV USA Tue 06/13/2006
Michelle in Chicago
I loved reading about your travel experiences but most importantly I think it is great that you continue to travel and experience other cultures and countries and not let the ignorance hold you back. Bravo for you!
New York, USA Mon 06/12/2006
Young Black Female, Eastern and Western Europe
Hey all, after reading some posts I wanted to add my two cents.
I am a 21 y/o black female. My first trip to Europe was to Madrid at 15 for 2 weeks. I went on a class trip with only one other black female in the group. I suspect the buffer of white classmates as well as the chaperones kept the worst of the racism away from me. I of course got the rude stares, but a rude word was never said to me. I spoke Spanish and had a wonderful time. We spent the following two weeks in Paris where I was absolutely amazed at the amount of black people there. I again encountered very little racism in from Parisians, once again however I had my buffer of white friends, so I can't say either of those experiences would be repeated if I travlled there alone.
From 19 to 21 I lived in Munich, that was my first real experience with the blatant racism and hostile stars. I was learning German and used it as often as possible. On the train I consistenly encountered stares, and my response is always to stare the offender down shaking my head. When travelling on the train with friends we almost always spoke english and that often ended the stares, answering the questions as to my origins. Both of my parents are from west Africa, so I am dark brown and have more African features. I was frequently approached by men (usually Turkish) asking me where I was from, if I was African, or even French. I wore a dirndl (traditional dress) to Oktoberfest and was the star of the show. Everyone wanted pictures, they pointed and smiled. One drunk old man made a racist comment to my German boyfriend, but that was the only problem. Germans are rude in general, you deal with it, you might even learn to like it. Bavarians, the region Munich is located in, however are in my opinon the nicest-scratch that- the least rude of the Germans. In Frankfurt I was treated like dirt and stalked by a man in his car trying to buy/rent/kidnap me. HATE FRANKFURT.
Vienna, Austria. My favorite trip thus far. Travelling with white Ozzie female , who spoke fluent German and had lived there before. Every person I encountered was nice, had a great time at the bars, became fast friends with strangers on the street. Delightfully handed my money over to friendly smiling shopkeepers, and travelled the public transport with a smile on my face.
Salzburg, Austria, nicer than Bavarians, not as nice as the Viennese, but still generally pleasant, occasional stare on the bus, or in the store but nothing that made me uncomfortable.
I've been to London twice and have never even received a second glance.
Norway, where I spent 2 weeks with a white american male, one week camping in a tiny town, and the other in Oslo. In the small town, and all the towns we pass through to get to it, the people were incredibly kind, and spoke perfect English. In Oslo, they were cold, rude, distant and stared openly. Go figure.
In Italy I spent 2 weeks of Christmas, and 2 weeks in the Summer in a small village in Alps with family friends, again everyone was incredibly kind. In Trento, I found the large student population to be very open minded and ecountered no hostility. In Venice, people stared, I was with my mom and white female friend. We encountered are first sexual assault of the trip. On to Rome, although some people were rude on the train, we had a private compartment and a pleasant experience overall. In Rome sexual assaults two and three took place, forcing us to declare Italy our least favorite country.
Cres, Croatia, and Island on which I spent one month and where I was one of 3 black people in a 200 mile radius. Here the people stared so hard they walked into poles and on more than one occasion almost walked off the sidewalk and into the sea. It was a wonderful vacation and honestly if I saw 1 black person a year I would have stared too.
Krakow, Poland, stares, but I was visiting Polish friends and again had that buffer. No one was openly rude to me, and my money was gladly accepted at every shop I went to (and I went to ALOT of them). Funny thing, although I saw no black people, I found my make-up shade at the Sephora there, something I had not been able to do in most countries up to that point.
Prague, almost as bad as the Croatians, open hostile stares, eyes following me around stores, rude service at and mean people in bars. I've done it twice and won't do it again.
In November I'm moving to Budapest, the one city I have not experienced. I will be there at least 3 years, possibly more and have no idea what to expect. Because of it's proximity to Vienna I'm hoping some of that Viennese pleasantness can be found there, but then there is Croatia a hop, skip and a jump away. It could go either way. Does anyone have experiences with Budapest to share, positive or Negative?
Michelle <email>
Chicago, IL USA Sat 06/10/2006
Bella Italia
I too am in mixed race relationship and we never really had any problems in Italy. People would stare but happens everywhere but no one was ever rude. However, I do understand what you mean about those walking in between you assuming you are not together. That happens to us all the time even here in NYC where we live.
USA Mon 06/05/2006
Bella Italia
My husband and I are American. I am cauasian, and my husband is African-American. We just returned from the most fantastic trip to Italy (Rome, Florence, and Venice). I have to say that we were treated well by everyone. At the most, we were treated indifferently at times, but I can't say that was due to our ethnicity or anything personal. More often than not people went out of their way to be welcoming to both of us. My grandparents were from Italy and I have an Italian last name. I had also taken an Italian class before our trip, and people were very friendly and patient with my trying out my awful Italian on them. My husband knew no Italian and I was pretty shocked to see people being equally kind and patient with him (maybe more so)! It made him more confident to try the language throughout the course of our trip. We rode the train between locations and were surrounded by locals on the ride from Rome to Venice and everyone was friendly-helping us get seats together and making sure we knew where we were going, which was funny and complicated since no one spoke any English and my classes did not prepare me for the speed at which Italians can talk. I liked Rome best because we blended in most there-both as a mixed couple and as possibly non-tourists. Some people stared, but it was much more a curious stare than the mean stare-downs we used to get in Illinois.
That said-I am referring to the Italians. I was not at all fond of Venice because the tourists did sometimes glare a bit. But hey-they're tourists-they're annoying by nature. Usually a little smile in their direction got a smile in return. There was one thing that bothered me. Sometimes in crowds people would walk between us if we weren't standing very close, or holding hands. My husband pointed out that sometimes people do not think we are together, just two random people. I don't think this had anything to do with a negaitve feeling about race, just human nature. It's weird the way we subconsciously do things.
Carol <email>
Austin, TX USA Fri 06/02/2006
Amsterdam, Paris, Brussels - No Obvious Racism there!
My husband and I - both Chinese-Canadians, just returned from a mini European trip. I read the forum postings before I departed, to "test" whether I would experience any real or perceived racism during my mini European adventure. This was our second trip to Europe and here's my account of our interactions with locals:
Amsterdam: the Dutch are super laid back, easy going people. I had zero negative dealings with any of them. I was never treated with disrepect or endured 2nd class treatment because of my race and/or gender. Amsterdam is very diverse and receives their tourists with open arms. Thumbs up to the Dutch!
Paris: The Parisians are notoriously famous for their snottiness and arrogance. While I saw much of this from strangers, once you get to know to them, they can be very friendly. Generally speaking, I did not experience any outright racism from anyone. My interactions with salespeople, transit workers, servers and hotel staff were all pleasant. The French like to stare and are not embarrased by it. Perhaps it's how I wore sneakers with jeans, or maybe my hair was a mess or....I would never know. But I don't think it was because of my race. Paris is a diverse city with a sizable Asian population so I'm probably getting those stares because of my touristy-ness more than anything. I did, on a few occasions, hear young children point and exclaim "hey, a Chinese girl!" in French. Okay, they're kids, so I let it go.
Brussels/Brugge: The Bruxelloise, are like the French - they enjoy staring too. Don't mind them, and stay your course. In Brugge, the people are more like the Dutch so I felt a warmer welcome there and perhaps because it is a smaller town. The only negative interaction was this really mean shop keeper at a satellite Dumon Chocolate store. Don't go there! The real Dumon is near the main squre (more about this in a separate post). I don't think her rudeness was directed at us because of our ethnicity, more because we were the typical North American tourist (too friendly, slow to make a purchase, dressed funny, etc).
My advice: if you're searching out for rude, ignorant people, you're bound to find them in Europe - or anywhere for that fact. Enjoy your travels and don't let the stares or racial remarks ruin your once in a lifetime trip!
Gidge
Vancouver, BC Canada Mon 05/29/2006
Reading Is Fun
To Just a Thought...
That is why I put it in past tense. I used to think that way I do not anymore. Maybe you should have read instead of simply reacted. I would love to discuss the experience of growing in America as a Black person. But I am under the impression this is a Traveler's Forum.
T.Mo
pittsburgh, pa USA Fri 05/26/2006
per-TMO--"Growing up in America I thought America was the most racist place on the planet"
If America is the most "racist" place on the planet, why do so many non-whites come here or stay here? Why do the taxpayers spend so much on non-whites, such as free medical care for non-white illegal aliens) at the expense of American citizens? America and Europe treat non-whites far far better than non-white countries treat other races. A white person wouldn't even be allowed to immigrate to most non-white countries.
Just a thought
USA Thu 05/25/2006
Black American Woman to Start Business: Where???
Ok this is the deal. I am finishing my Master's Degree in Fashion Design, and I plan on starting a clothign company overseas. Based on my business model I think an emerging/developing market is a better choice for me. After studying overseas in East Africa and encountering a lot of racism. I am a bit shy, sadly about where to go next. Growing up in America I thought America was the most racist place on the planet, but I have come to discover this is not the case. Anyway so I wanted to get people's feedback on different locations and learn from your experiences. I am thinking of: Mexico, Argentina, other South American locations??? South East Asia: Shanghai, Vietnam or Thailand. Europe: Istanbul, Turkey Also open to suggestions. Thanks!
T.Mo. <email>
Pittsburgh, PA USA Thu 05/25/2006
why is everyone staring at me?
i'm an afro-american woman. i've lived in paris for the last 2 years and i'd say that daily i encounter moderate racism. on daily basis someone treats me like a prostitute, with suspicion or intentional disrespect. and over time i've realized that much of the disrespect (being ignored or observed with suspicion) may derive simply from the fact that i was a stranger, to the shop keeper, for example. once i became a regular customer or familiar face i was treated more like a college-educated, intelligent and (maybe) even attractive woman. i've noted also that the many of the stares i get are because i do appear as an occidental, intelligent and friendly woman and many european caucasian (and often arabic peoples) people still expect see blacks in sandals with a headscarf working as a maid or nanny and really can't believe their eyes. somewhat similar was true in the united states 20 years ago but thank god that's drastically changed. i'd say we owe it to tiger woods, the nfl and nba and will smith and oprah winfrey and condoleeza rice and colin powell and many others. the europe union in general has never sprouted any progressive "ethnic" roots; be it legal, political, social, cultural from its black, noir, mixed, metisse or african "societies" and the stares that you get are the proof. the streets of paris are extremely mixed with all varieties of people and families. but the legal and political bureaus, corporate offices and police stations are rarely more than "caucasian only". i've been to the the most rural parts of switzerland and i was seldom stared at. i found the larger swiss cities to be even more welcoming. portugal was great: i felt very welcome there. i must say dubai was incredible and i was stared at mostly because i was was alone. most women walk around in groups of women or with children or their husbands. the great relief in dubai was that the majority of everyone is brown-skinned and suddenly i was no longer a Minority. remembering this still makes me smile. and for this reason alone, i suggest a trip to dubai for any brown-, black skinned american. still, i experienced extreme staring during my trips to barcelona and vaquiera in spain. but my boyfriend who is french, caucasian and swiss eased my fears by telling me that i could be halle berry for all they know--so they're hoping to get a chance to say ," i saw a celebrity today."
HBV <email>
Paris, France Sun 05/21/2006
Teaching/Coaching Abroad
The comments found here have been fascinating, though I've not completed the entire collection.
Fellow world travellers, I request your assistance! I've recently been bitten bythe travel bug and am currently researching the opportunity to teach/coach outside of the USA. I am a single mixed black female, early 30s, and the issues here are what my #1 source of nervousness is from, being a minority female in a new country!
Right now my target countries are Ireland, England, and Italy. I'd also thought about Austria, Spain, Greece, France, Monaco and Morocco as well. The list is much longer, but I'd bore you to death and this is already long enough!
I have a pretty laid back attitude. I usually don't let much that's said or done send me into an outrage, but I also don't enjoy rudeness. Now I may be paranoid, but being a rather large framed woman, 5'10" with a very muscular build that happens to be hidden under a layer of insulation, I'm used to being stared at anyway. I'm used to the "Holy cow, LARGE BLACK WOMAN HEADIN' THIS WAY!!", kind of facial expression.
At this time I welcome hear your thoughts, opinions, and advice.
Thank you for your kind attention.
Happy & Safe Travels to you all!
:)
Miss Coach <email>
Fort Worth, TX USA Wed 05/17/2006
Re:Phil
Good you should go back and travel everywhere. THe point is ignorant people are everywhere and no one should let them are there racist antics pervent them from traveling. Greece is my home away from home so I am always half packed to go back.
Parker
Newport Beach, Ca USA Fri 05/12/2006
Re: Parker
Actually, I am black(American), which is why I made the comments I made concerning Greece; I've witnessed Greek racism/discrimination first hand. BTW I will most likely be returning there this summer or fall to reunite with my friends after three years.
Phil
Adelphi, MD USA Thu 05/11/2006
Re:Phil
Phil there is racism everywhere, being a Black person I know it first hand. Should I crawl under a rock because the world is filled with narrow-minded and short-sighted people, I think not. If I were to google every destination I go to for racism I am pretty sure I would find it because with all the people living on this earth there is bound to be at least one or two that have had issues of racisim if they are of the "Brown" population. Do you think I as a Black person or your couple of African friends do not know that growing up. We know go through it everyday of our lives. SOmetimes it is more overt than other times but it is still there.
And please spare me with you I have African friends statement, because it really means nothing. Here is a good experiment for you. If you are not married bring home a Black girlfriend and tell your parents that you are engaged and see just how non-racist your own family are or maybe even yourself. It is ont thing having Blacks friends it is quite another marrying theminto your family. I can say that because My family is like the UN. We have every nation coverd, with kids and grandkids.
Racisim is out there true....just don;t be a prisoner to it. FYI...Black people don't go or do anyithng with there eyes closed.
Parker
Newport Beach, CA USA Thu 05/11/2006
Greek racism
Actually, racism in Greece is not just limited to Albanians. All of my African friends there have horror stories to tell about the level of racism in that country, and it surpasses most European countries. I speak with authority, having lived in both west and east Berlin, where the racism can be unnerving. Like I said, all one needs to do is Google "Greece racism" and see what you come up with. I'm not saying, "don't go to Greece." But if you do, you keep your eyes closed to Greek racism/xenophobia at your own risk.
Phil
Adelphi, MD USA Wed 05/03/2006
Re:Phil
The entire Greek and Albanian feud goes way back sort of like the bad taste blacks in America have with the whites in America. I am not saying that there are not racist in Greece but it is everywhere. Are you going to hide under a rock and and never travel or better yet never leave you own home. Lets face it racism is around every corner, just do not stop you from seeing the world because of it. Don't you think that is there purpose? To keep you from educating yourself via travel. Be a smart and wise traveler.
Parker
Newport Beach, Ca USA Tue 05/02/2006
London, Paris, Rome
After reading this forum and talking to people of color of various races (African-American, Asian-American, Latino/a, etc.) who have traveled to Europe, I wasn't sure what to expect. I'd heard about the rudeness of Parisians, the multicultural mix in London, and the friendliness of Italians. My actual experience was totally different than what I expected.
I recently traveled to London, Paris and Rome for a two-week first-time European trip. By far, Parisians were the most friendly people, in contrast to the famous stereotype. It could have been due to the fact that I tried to speak French everywhere we went (I am nowhere near fluent but I have a halfway decent accent). I definitely felt that overall, Parisians were more tolerant of 'differen't people (at least tourists from different countries who weren't white). I've heard horror stories of Arab and North African immigrants being spit on, called names, etc. but as an Asian-American tourist couple (I'm Filipina and my boyfriend is Chinese), we were treated very well in Paris. London as well, as there are many Asians there (Indian, Pakistani, Chinese, even Filipino!). Other European tourists in London were not so friendly, though, and the British 'stiffness' was a bit too uptight for me at times.
Surprisingly, the only negative experience I had around race was in Rome, where (ironically) two white Italian workers at a McDonalds made disparaging remarks about my attempts to speak Italian and called me 'Cinese' (Chinese--I knew enough italian to understand what they were saying), as if I should speak their language fluently, although i was clearly a non-European tourist. Even this wouldn't have bothered me much except that I had seen white American men being treated with a lot of deference and respect at the same McDonalds a few days before.
Thanks Rick Steves and everyone who posted on this forum for sharing your experiences. It's great to have forums like this to discuss these sensitive topics openly.
RF
San Francisco, CA USA Tue 04/25/2006
Re: Southern Europe
Southern Europeans are defensive to the point of hysteria about their "ethnic heritage", and they take great offense at any suggestion that they're descended from anyone other than the indigenous population. This is especially true in Sicily with regards to the Arabs, and Greece with regards to the Turks/Albanians. A similar obsession in Spain persists around whom in their formerly vast colonial empire is "more Amerindian" than others. Argentinians are treated better in Madrid than Ecuadorians, for instance.
Of course, this racialization is patently arbitary because the current population of Europe resulted from several waves of migration, invasion, and interaction with other continents any way.
Having said that, it is absolutely no more arbitrary than in the United States. Don't think so? Try "accusing" Italians and Greeks in New York City of being less than "100% white". Negative responses are almost guaranteed, even though the U.S. Census Bureau only declared them "white" after WW2. I've found it helpful to keep this history in mind as you travel, and you'll always get a good (mental) laugh out of why both people abroad and at home place so much power in such labels.
Jon
Vancouver, WA USA Sat 04/22/2006
Re: Parker
I'm afraid Greece really is that racist. Just because that racism may not be directed at some African-Americans does NOT mean that Athens is free of it. Just ask any Albanian living there, or for that matter most people who aren't Greek. I know Athens extremely well, and had been traveling there frequently between 1987 and 2002. Very, very few people who lived there then had anything truly positive to say about Greeks and their feelings about non-Greeks, especially if they were black. Just Google "Greece racism" and see what you come up with.
Phil
Adelphi, MD USA Fri 04/21/2006
Re: Athens = Racist Nightmare
I am an Black female that lived in Greece for a year and you had me rolling on the floor with your comments. The way Greeks act is not because they are racists it is because that is there culture. They do not even realize they are doing it. My friend and I laugh all the time about how Greeks would say they did not understand what we were saying in their own language. Again that is not because they are racist.
Greece is my home away from home and I would move back there in a heartbeat. They can be loud at times in expressing themselves but in the next 5 mins they are enviting you for a coffee. And the smiling thing is really not a big deal.
If you are going to be an international traveler you must realize that you are not in your hometown and things are not going to be like they are at home. Open your mind to the new experiences don't use it to firghten others from traveling. People are racists all over the world including the US. Learn to not wear your feelings on your shoulders.
Parker
Newport Beach, Ca USA Thu 04/20/2006
Mixed Couple In Europe - No Problems
I wanted to mention that My husband (White) and I (Black) were in France, Venice, Barcelona and Madrid in January. I wanted to report that we had one of our BEST vacations ever and found friendly warm people in all the countries/cities we visited. I speak a little French, Hubby Speaks a little Spanish...The Trip was AMAZING and we can't wait to return to Europe!
San Francisco, CA USA Wed 04/19/2006
airfares resource
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charleston, wv USA Sun 04/16/2006
REAL OR PERCIEVE RACISM IN SPAIN?
Hi Everyone
I've been lurking about reading post of the different travelers on this board.I am looking for advice about living short term(6 months) in Spain.Don't really know anyone personally who has experienced what life is like for Black Americans living as expats in Spain.
Have met Military soldiers who were based there that gave high marks to the Spainish for being open,friendly and accepting of Black Americans.It was my impression their opinion was based on having fun with the night life.Apparently the Spanish women are big on dating Black American soldiers.A few of them actually told me they miss living there.
That all sounds good but then I read that the Spanish are very racist toward black soccer players during matches,and this is something which happen often.At this point my radar is up and by doing abit of research I read there are serious racial problems in Spain directed toward Asains and Blacks.
This is what I need to know,as a Black American male should I be concern about the real racial situation happening in Spain? If you have been to Spain,is it your opinion that African Americans are treated with racism in Spain or are the rumors over blown? How many of you have actually been treated with true racism as oppose to anti foreigner sentiments?
It seems there is a illegal immigration problem concerning north,east Africans sneaking into Spain.Because the Spainish appear to be ignorant of diversity,African American women can be mistaken for prostitutes due to the current anti-immigrant sentiment.Do you believe this anti immigrant sentiment makes Spain a dangerous place for all Black people regardless of gender? Do you know of any Black Americans who live or traveled happily in Spain?
Thank you for your responses
Ray
Hackensack , NJ USA Thu 03/30/2006
To Lisa
When I went to Florence everything went alright. No one was overly rude, but they weren't exactly going out of their way to be nice either. Little things kind of got on my nerves like always being served last, but since you'll be with a bunch of other black people you should probably have no problem with that. Rome on the other hand was fantastic!! There's a lot more people there from many other backgrounds which was a relief to see after a while. The people were very friendly as well and they seemed to go out of their way to tell me about the history of their city/monuments. I'd definitely recommend staying in Rome for as long as you can!
Casey <email>
IL USA Tue 03/28/2006
First Time to Europe
My friends and I are going to Italy for the Christmas and New Year's holidays. We will be traveling to Florence, Siena and Rome and we'll be using the train and the bus to get around. We are all African American women, two of us are lesbian and a couple.
We are very excited about going but after reading the posts in this forum, I'm wondering if there are some things we should know. Any advice to pass on?
Lisa <email>
Landover, MD USA Tue 03/28/2006
No Asians In London & Stared at in Brugges???
I am addressing this to the 23-year old Korean-Canadian who went to London & Brugges.
I am an overseas Chinese (NOT communist China), second generation carrying South East Asian nationality. I have visited Europe almost 10 times over a period of 15 years. For London, I find it strange that you saw no Asians, London was full of Indians, Blangadeshis, Pakistanis, a large group of Hong Kong immigrants AND a large group of communist China immigrants. There were also plenty of Communist China tourists who are now given tourist visa to visit Britain. They were all over London and I am surprised that you did not see them in Oxford Circus, Marble Arch, London Bridge, Millenium Wheel, Buckingham Palace, Kew Gardens, Cambridge, Oxford, Bath. WHere exactly were you in London & when. I have been in London during height of summer and in late autumn late Oct to early Nov and all those diverse people I mentioned above were in abundance!!!
As for Brugges, you were stared at??? I found that strange. I was there in June 2000 and I was travelling alone and nobody pointed fingers at me and no one stared at me. I speak fluent English and occasionally I asked local Brugges for directions and they politely pointed in the direction I should go. I visited cafe on my own and was served my meals. Brugges folk were polite even the local bus driver who greeted "Good Morning" to me in English!! I spent my time walking all over Brugges for a good 3 whole days with trips to Antwerp even. Again where were you???
Curious
Asia, Asia Thu 03/23/2006
minority traveller
As an Asian-American family (2 young children), we visited Europe last summer for 3 weeks. We visited 6 countries, I didn't noticed any rudeness or crude remarks. I just ignored rude behaviors,I think it's cultural. My husband and I were too busy with our children that we didn't pay attention. I noticed that Europeans are more tolerant when you travel with children. I was more concerned with our safety and pickpockets, although we did try to learn a few words esp; hello, please,thank you and how much? in German,French and Italian.
jft
seattle, wa USA Thu 03/23/2006
italy
I am white and blonde and have been living in Italy for the last six months. I dislike it, on the whole. People constantly stare, and not in a friendly way, either. The Italian women are the worst--pushy and arrogant--they look at me as though with hatred. My fiance has noticed this even more than me!!! And they never move out of the way on side-walks, in shops--I am always the one who has to stop or move to the side. Italian women can be incredibly rude and, I think, simple minded--their lives ruled by fashion and looking good and not much else, it seems. Italy itself can be beautiful--but after living here, one realizes that Italy's beauty is only historic. Centres of towns are beautiful (and some of the countryside) but what surrounds the history is genuinely ugly--post-war architecture and suburban planning that is depressing beyond belief. Also Italy is not clean--garbage thrown everywhere, except in the touristic ares.
I am not surprised by anyone experiencing rudeness and racism in Italy--you don't even have to be black--just foreign-looking. The country is backwards--it has a corrupt mafioso for a president--Berlusconi. My advice would be to see the main, touristy sites--and the incredible art--Italy lives on its history--then go north if you are looking for polite people who are not self-absorbed and narcissistic. Leaving Italy with no regrets.
daria
milan, italy Thu 03/23/2006
Go to Poland
Wroclaw, Jelenia Gora, Gdansk,Warzawa,and Kielce cities in Poland that I was treated with respect and courtesy.The night life in Poland is something to expereince,and the country is drenched in a rich tragic history. Poland is a country with haunting beauty. Go to Poland.
Chester Wright
Mission Viejo, CA USA Wed 03/22/2006
Annie---Christmas in Paris
Annie---for your first trip to Europe, a Rick Steve's tour is an excellent idea. You will have a wonderful time, meet some great people, and learn enough about travel in Europe that you can plan a trip on your own the next time. While it appears from some comments below that African-Americans may not always be well-treated in Spain, that is not the case in France. You will be well received. Just be sure to learn a few polite phrases---greet all shopkeepers when you enter the store with a "Bonjour, Madame" (or Monsieur), and say "Merci", etc. And don't expect a lot of smiles---they are not being rude to you; it is usual there to maintain some distance, and everyone is treated that way. There are whole books on the subject of helping Americans understand French customs and manners, if you are interested in doing some reading. "Savoir-Flair" by Polly Platt, or her earlier book "French or Foe" are good ones. Bon voyage!
USA Mon 03/20/2006
Athens = Racist Nightmare
I'm a single black 21 year old and this will be my last week in Athens Greece...after having come here attempting to teach English. Most of the Athenians I have met are rude, extremely arrogant (much like the descriptions about Madrileņos) and Madrid...and I have been called many names...the police treated me like a terrorist on arrival.
When you go into any bar and ask for something, they just ignore you and then claim "oh i don't understand your greek". They make you pay also before...which is unheard of in Greece (for Greeks anyway)...and they treat every "foreigner" like scum. Those who thought that Southern European countries are more open are mistaken...as I was. Southern Europeans are by far the most racist and xenophobic. Also, they stare and if you smile, they won't smile back.
Greece Mon 03/20/2006
Christmas in Paris?
I'm a 40 y/o single African American female. I am considering a trip to Paris on Rick Steves' Paris city tour during the week of Christmas. This would be my first time in Paris (and Europe), and I would be traveling solo. I'm somewhat reluctant to travel alone which is why I thought a tour would be ideal. Any thoughts or tips on traveling solo, or traveling to Paris in general (or as an African American female specifically) would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much!
Annie <email>
Los Angeles, CA USA Sun 03/19/2006
Madrid
I am an Afro-American who visited Madrid in the summer and fall of 2002. While the prejudice there did not seem nearly as bad as what Wendi experienced--certainly not as bad as Barcelona was--there was a subtle but very perceptible undertow of racial animosity. The waiters and shopkeepers were courteous, but since I understood Spanish, I also understood the things they said under their breaths, or behind my back. Furthermore, there are a lot of prostitutes there from South America, and knowing Spanish racism, they probably think any dark-skinned provocatively-dressed female is a prostitute.
Phil
Hyattsville, MD USA Sun 03/19/2006
Paris Any Day
I suggest that if you are black, multiracial, or of African descent, avoid Madrid and go to Paris. Not to sound like a member of the Parisian tourism bureau or anything, but all I have are positive things to say about Paris. Despite the popular conception that the French are rude to tourists, I had quite the opposite experience. Paris reminded me very much of New York, so I was conditioned to a certain level of coldness and was expecting that, but found Parisians to be very nice and helpful, even though I am only proficient in French and not fluent. Paris is racially and ethnically diverse as they have a large North African and Caribbean (i.e. Haiti) population. I saw countless interracial couples, which was a positive sign, as well as multiple "ethnic" business establishments and restaurants. I was never stared at ONCE (unlike in Madrid) and everyone I encountered in stores, restaurants, and other businesses treated me with the utmost respect and kindness. The only thing that I found a bit odd in Paris was a set of products in the grocery store whose label was a family of blackface-minstrel-esque caricatures (i.e. the very dark skin, large red lips, bandanas, big eyes, eating watermelon type of thing). I found this to be a bit odd considering their apparent openness to other ethnicities. Also, while I did not witness any racism toward the South Asian population while there, I have heard of the French not being the most welcoming to people who are clearly of the Muslim/Arab/South Asian population and expecting them to assimilate into French culture (i.e. the legislation that forbids head scarves worn by Muslims in public schools). Overall, however, Paris was an amazing city and I look forward to going back very soon. I suggest it to tourists of any race who are conditioned to a very cosmopolitan metropolitan environment. If you have never been to NYC or other major cities, you may run into problems, so just be ready for that.
Wendi <email>
New York, NY USA Sun 03/19/2006
I will never return to Madrid
For spring break I decided to treat myself by traveling to Europe alone. I only had a week, so I decided to visit Paris (where I had been before, 8 years ago) and Madrid (where I had never been). Needless to say, I will never ever return to Madrid again, even if someone paid me.
I had white and Asian-American friends who had studied abroad there and who loved it, so I was going on their experiences as fuel to my excitement to going to Spain. However, one friend did mention that the Spanish were a bit racist and that a lot of the prostitutes are Centra America or black women, so to be careful in certain areas.
OK, fine I thought. Usually I have no trouble traveling because even though I identify as black, due to my family's background, I am one of those "racially ambiguous" people that gets called "exotic" a lot and whom many peope generally have troubling figuring out my racial/ethnic background. So i thought, ok, I am not "blatantly" black. The Spaniards will think I am Brazilian or Dominican or something and will never assume "African."
I think this may have unfortunately been the crux of my problem. I did not fit into their idea of "black" so they decided to figure it out on their own by staring me into social submission. I was literally stared at so much that it made me cry when I went home in the afternoons. Mind you, I didn't get to see very much of Madrid because I was afraid to stay out after sunset the way people treated me.
Waiters, with the exception of those from Latin America (they have a large influx of Latino immigrants who work in the service sector...i.e. hotels, restaurants, and low-level municipal jobs like street cleaning), were incredibly rude to me. People who worked in retail clothing stores ignored me (which is funny considering in the US, blacks are followed around or asked "can I help you" about 50 times). I would see tons of Spaniards come into the stores that the workers would help, while in my case, even if I looked interested in buying something, they would completely ignore me. People frequently skipped me in line, walked right into me as if I were not there, and continued to stare...some even as bold to stare at me about 4 inches from my face. Men made disgusting comments to me, which also compelled my fear to be out at night, and I felt I could not go anywhere and feel safe.
As a result of the harassment I dealt with, I asked the cab driver who took me to the airport what the problem was. He told me that lots of Spaniards have problems with blacks due to the influx of African immigrants/refugees and their inability to properly assimilate (as they often are poor and do not speak the language), but that they accept Asians for the most part because they silently blend into the population by starting their own businesses (sefl-sufficiency, thus not a strain on govt. resources) and speaking Spanish.
The dark black people I saw who were clearly African immigrants did not seem to experience harassment, at least not in my presence, but I did notice that other people who looked like me, the few that I did see, including a mother with her little girl on the subway, were stared at in a similar manner that I was.
Wendi <email>
New York, NY USA Sun 03/19/2006
Single Asian Female
I've traveled to Europe 3 times.
The first and only time I felt different was on a train from London to Oxford. I noticed two teenage girls were making racist remarks about me. At another occasion, I overheard teenage girls making rude comments about the appearances of young Japanese female tourists(they dressed differently from most people) at the British Museum. Other than that, most people in England I encountered were polite. That was in 2000 though.
My 2002 trip to mainland Europe was pretty nice and I walked around in Amsterdam till mid-night and didn't experience any of the harassments encountered by one of the Asian lady on this site. I might just be lucky. I do try to stay away from Red Light District. While in Paris, there was a man following me around and I had to tell him a few times to stop following me. That's the only time I felt really worried. This incident happens maybe because I'm a single female walking alone in Paris...might have nothing to do with my Nationality.
My best experience was in Spain in 2003. People go out of their way to help me and that's consistenly through out the whole trip. I remembered fondly that at Toledo, an old lady even took my hand and walked me to the front of the church I was trying to find. She was very very kind and had a great smile. It's things like this that make a trip so special. In Spain, if people do make comments, usually it's complements like Pretty Girl/Boy and never in a harrasing way.
I'm going to Greece in May. I heard Greeks are suppose to be rude but from book I was reading, it might be a cultural thing. Greeks talk loudly and a lot of times people take it as rudeness when it's merely the way they communicate. So armed with this knowledge, I will keep an open mind and be friendly and polite and enjoy my trip.
I've never had any problem. I found 90% of the people I come into direct contact with were polite and friendly and helpful.
LC <email>
Sunnyvale, CA USA Tue 03/07/2006
My final reply to Mark
Mark,I am an African-American who has lived about thirty percent of my life outside of the USA..The reason that people are racist is because of their personal philosophy. It has nothing to do with illegal immigration, undocumented workers, unfamiliarity or anything else. Individuals have been racist long before illegal immigration, and the other issues that I mentioned became hot topics. It is simply a philosophy like; Taoism, Marxism, white supremacism, or post modernism. The various "reasons" that you mentioned in your post are simply sociological topics that are available for analysis from any perspective. I withdraw my insinuation that you intended to offend.
Wil
San Francisco, CA USA Sun 03/05/2006
is this my section?
It sure would be nice to have a section for lesbian and gay travelers. We are a minority, so I guess this is my section. Having traveled in Europe many times, I know that I am often looking for social activities (bars or bookstores are a good source for info) for lesbians and gay men. There are separate web sites, but it would be nice to have our interests included here, too.
Ellen S.
Sebastopol, CA USA Sun 03/05/2006
@Wil
What exactly was "complete assumption"?
I have lived in Andalusia and I can tell you that there is a considerable amount of legal and illegal African immigrants and refugees.
Mark
Berlin, Germany Sun 03/05/2006
Experiences in England, France and Belgium
I'm a 23-year old Korean-Canadian who travelled through parts of Europe last spring with my sister. Though we didn't really have any problems, there were a couple of things we found interesting.
London: We felt like we stuck out a bit - there just didn't seem to be many other east asians in the city. Maybe that's just because we're from Toronto and are used to an incredible amount of diversity, but it made us a little uncomfortable. People were, however, mostly friendly.
Paris: We were treated with disdain, rudeness, and scorn, though we were polite, friendly and spoke French the entire time (I'm near-fluent). I'm not sure if that had anything to do with our race, however - it may just be how Parisians are.
Amboise/Bayeux, France: Some people automatically assumed we were Japanese and others automatically assumed we were French =). I think this had to do with the fact that we spoke French and didn't give any indication of being able to speak English. When people did overhear us speaking English to each other, they usually guessed we were American before Canadian.
Bruges/Brugge: The people were very friendly but I swear my sister and I were the only 2 Asian people in the entire town. This resulted in some children pointing at us as we walked by on the streets and some curious stares from people in shops or restaurants, but it wasn't anything offensive.
Overall, I didn't have many problems in Europe but my experiences there really made me appreciate home. Contrary to what some people have said on this board, being in Europe really made me feel Asian rather than Canadian. It was nice to get home and be able to blend into a crowd again. That being said, I can't wait for my next trip =).
Canada Sat 03/04/2006
@Casey
Remember that Granada is only 130 miles away from Africa. In Andalusia Black persons are definetly not so unknown that they "causing stirs". As a white guy I can not tell you how much racism you would face in Grenada. But the problem would not be the perceived "strangeness" of Black persons, but problems and prejudices connected with "illegal immigrants" and "illicit cheap workers" and stereotypes of "Muslims".
Mark
Berlin, Germany Sat 03/04/2006
Blacks in Belgrade
Thanks for the vote of confidence on Serbia, anyone else with experiences are welcome to e-mail me.
Islandgyrl <email>
NJ USA Sun 02/26/2006
Belgrade and Blacks
I am a black American, and I LOVE Serbia and Belgrade in particular. The people are super nice and cosmopolitan. Belgrade is true Europe unspoiled by tourism. You will love the people and city.
Brian Thomas
Miami, FL USA Sat 02/25/2006
Travel to Belgrade
I am traveling to Belgrade in early June to visit a friend I met in Germany last year. Is it safe for a black, female to be in that part of the world?
Islandgyrl <email>
NJ USA Sat 02/25/2006
Is Malta Safe for Blacks
Does anyone know about the recent hate issues in Malta? I will be traveling there in April and, as a Black American, I'm a little concerned about the recent wave of hate against the African illegals. Most foreigners can tell the difference between a black tourist and an illegal, but alcohol and stupidity can override common sense sometimes.
Brian Thomas
Miami, FL USA Sat 02/25/2006
Europe racist and rude?
Greetings everyone:
I haven't been to Europe since directly after 9/11, and I never really had too many problems with rude people--except in Italy, where a lot of anti-American graffiti turned me off as far as being an Italiphile is concerned. Usually it was the other tourists who had the problems, and they were all white. I went to Europe first in 1999 with a group of Americans, all mostly moneyed snobs, the second & third trips with Contiki (overwhemingly Aussie in nature) and I would say I preferred traveling with the Aussies because they did not complain so much.
The rudest people (I felt) were the Italian women, followed swiftly by French people in cities outside of Paris (namely, Cannes--where I don't care to return--and Avignon). I also disliked Florence, did not care much for London (I think it's just too big for my tastes and the blacks & Arabs there were not as friendly as the whites), and on the whole, Switzerland's inhabitants were very reserved people, but at least the scenery more than makes up for it.
My favorite countries were Germany, Austria, Netherlands, and Belgium as far as the locals go. Just my opinion, however. Once I posted this observation and a forum poster left a nasty message for me simply because he'd had racist experiences and I haven't.
I think my biracial appearance had a lot to do with how I was received. I may return to Europe this year.
Most of the rudeness was directed to Americans in general, I noticed--and towards the Aussies as well at times!
In Paris, one man called out for Canadians to go home.
Carmen <email>
Charlotte, NC USA Fri 02/24/2006
Native American/Asian & Anglo AND with kids
My husband (a third gen Irish American) and I (Eskimo/Phillipino/Irish) have travelled in Europe many times over the past ten years. The only note worthy thing that happened to us happened in Paris. I noticed the women giving me the once-over. It was nothing to be concerned with, sometimes ladies get that in the US from other women as well. When people found out that I was Eskimo they were so curious. It was a nice chance to talk about & share my culture.
We have been to urban and remote parts of Ireland, Austria, Germany, England and Holland. I have never felt out of place, threatened or treated badly. We have traveled with our little boys. I found the children to be great ice breakers and traveling with them is a fun way to get to see euro-family life by going to parks and child centered attractions. Kids make friends despite obvious language barriers; playing dinosaurs at the park just requires roaring!
Don't let anyone control your vacation. Go, experience & enjoy.
Willie
Portland, OR USA Thu 02/23/2006
Amsterdam
I'm Asian-American, and have traveled to Europe solo. I've been to the UK, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and (briefly) Germany. Of the five, the Netherlands - Amsterdam in particular - was the worst, as far as racism went.
The moment I arrived at Central Station to buy tram tickets, I was confronted by three black men who were complaining about "too many Asians" coming into the country. Never mind that they were complaining in English, because their own Dutch was horrible!
I was followed by other black male thugs throughout my weeklong stay in Amsterdam. They would even follow me in a car sometimes, throwing racist and sexist taunts at me. This happened even well outside the Red Light District. My only crime was being a single Asian female. I can only wonder how the large Indonesian minority puts up with this hostility.
I noted that the perpetrators were black men. To be specific, Surinamese men, as Suriname, on the north shores of South America, used to be a Dutch colony for a while. I also noted that these thugs never messed with white men, which is why travel guides written by white men paint Amsterdam in such lovely phrases and tones. Not for me.
Bottom line: I would never travel to Amsterdam ever again. The thugs are too rude, and if the vaunted Dutch tolerance includes tolerance for this kind of behavior, then no thanks.
Elsewhere, I've been assumed to be a Chinese tourist in London, and a Korean tourist in Paris. Good thing I spoke bits of the appropriate language - though I would quickly reveal that I am from California. No rude responses to that, even in France, where I found myself as America's leaders were vilifying France every minute they had. However, if I were to go back to Europe today, I will not bother identifying as an American.
Rachel
Los Angeles, CA USA Fri 02/17/2006
I'm a black, female, University student and I definitely want to study abroad in Spain. However, I am a little concerned about the racism there. I know that the major cities across Europe usually have a nice mixed population of races, so a minority face here or there does not cause quite a stir, but I really want to study in Granada, Spain and I was wondering how I may be perceived there. If anyone has had any experiences traveling throughout southern Spain and can share some tips or advice with me, it would be much appreciated.
Casey
IL USA Sun 02/12/2006
London
While traveling in London, my husband and I felt very welcomed. Most negative comments or discourse were political in nature, not ethnically related. One interesting thing that we observed was that London seemed to have a high percentage of ethnic minority populations, including immigrants from Eastern Europe. We were wondering where the white-British lived, suburbs perhaps?
Anne
Los Angeles, CA USA Sat 02/11/2006
My Fellow Americans
Recently went on one of Rick's tours and found some of my fellow Americans on the tour infinitely more condescending, awe-struck, put out by or even (weirdly) competitive with an African-American (woman!) than ANY European I've met ANYWHERE in Europe.
JCA
New York, NY USA Fri 02/10/2006
Beautiful Roma
I just returned from a 10 day vacation to Rome and Naples ( Amalfi, Positano and pozzouli)
Before my trip I did a lot of research regarding the treatment of minorities over in Italy, especially blacks since I am a black male and my fiance is white. I must admit i was a bit sheepish but the moment we touched down in Rome i had the most wonderful vacation ever. I didnt receive any stares or rude gestures of any kind. In fact the Romans were gracious and welcoming. My fiance, who is very beautiful received a great deal of attention from both men and women. On many occassions romans of both sexes approached her and gestured "Bellisima".
In every restaurant we ate at we were treated with such respect. One in particular we visited three times for dinner and live jazz and each time the not only hugged and kissed us, they greeted us by name and definately "took care of" a very large bill we racked up...lol
In Naples and the Amalfi coast the treatment was the same. I am sad to say that yes, i did keep waiting for the rude stare, comment and or gesture directed at me and my fiance but it never happend.
We will definately be going back later this year!
John S. <email>
Denver, Co USA Wed 02/01/2006
Multi Racial Couple from FL
Our first (and only, so far) European travel experiences were in London and Amsterdam last November. I'm black, my husband is white. We had no problems whatsoever. People kept stopping me on the street in London to ask directions. Guess I looked comfortable and people actually thought I was a local. As far as Amsterdam, we enjoyed it immensely and once again, no problems. Most people thought my husband was Dutch. My thought is that whatever or whoever you are, take pride in your heritage. If other people have a problem .... well, that's just THEIR problem. We're going back to London this fall, as well as Dublin. We've both got the travel bug and we plan to see as much of the world as we can.
Jacquie <email>
St. Petersburg, FL USA Wed 02/01/2006
Multi Racial Couple from LA
I'm Chinese American, and my husband is Mexican American. We've traveled all over and have not felt any racism. I'm shocked at how some of you, my fellow travelers, have been shouted at or glared at.
I really do not see myself as a "minority" and don't see my spouse and i as "interracial". I guess living in Los Angeles has its advantage as a melting pot, and I always feel like I blend in any big city.
Fortunate for us, my husband speaks 3 languages and I speak 2, so perhaps if someone DID say something derrogative, I can counter it in their language.
Education and being armed with quick sense will help you. Being smart on when to defend yourself is key in any situation!
Michelle
USA Tue 01/31/2006
Questions about going it Solo
I am an African American woman and in my early 30s. I am planning to take a short trip solo to Europe and am deciding where to go. I've never really traveled solo on vacation and would love some advice on the best cities to go to, etc. Thanks for your help!
Brett <email>
Jersey City, NJ USA Mon 01/30/2006
copenhagen 2005
hello-
i've been lurking at this forum for sometime and i just thought i would add a bit about my travel experience in copenhagen...i went at the end of the summer last year....i traveled alone...i am a black female in my 30's but unfortunately people often assume that i am much younger...as for copenhagen i was there for a week and i stayed at a beautiful hotel on the canal...copenhagen was architectually stunning, the cobblestone streets, beautifully maintained historic buildings and the lastest constructs such as the opera house and the library which, is referred to as the black diamond...i spent a great deal of time simply sight seeing and as a vegetarian i found the fruit stands to be a great source of snacks... physically the people were beautiful, tall, blond, blue-eyed but unfortunately their beauty was often only skin deep...they were surprising cold and hostile, i was ignored at restaurants and souvenir stores, had my change thrown at me a bakery, ...it was rather surreal...i discovered by talking to other americans that they had also experienced acts of coldness and hostility...i thought about donning a f..you-attitude and giving it right back to the danish east coast style but i thought "what's the point?"... instead i avoided the a-holes and had a great time...
<email>
USA Wed 01/25/2006
It is interesting reading these comments. I think that it reveals a lot about the mindset of minority Americans. We are rather sensitive about race, and I think it's too bad that many things about American life has made us this way.
I'm a fourth-generation Japanese-American and I've been studying in England since September. I think many things that bother me here also (after some thought) bother me at home.
I've experienced some racism here in England, but not overt, person-to-person racism. People have driven by while me and an Asian American friend were walking and yelled, "CHINKS!" at us. It bothered me a lot, but, to put it in perspective, the same thing also happened to me and my church youth group on St. Simon's Island, Georgia, but I didn't write off all of Georgia or America as racist.
I think in a lot of ways, people in Britain might be more open to me knowing I'm an American versus Japanese from Japan. But people do that in America, too. Traveling and living in a foreign country has opened my eyes to race and cultural issues. As accepting as I thought I was, I am learning that (as trite as it sounds) we are all just people and we owe it to others and ourselves to learn about and understand other cultures and races rather than simply judging them by our own standards and expectations that don't really work when transferred to other places. But that is one lesson I gain from living abroad and traveling. I learn what it is like to be an outsider and how unfair differentiations like "African-American" and "African" can be.
It is terribly disappointing and frustrating to be treated badly because of race when you are just trying to have a nice vacation, not storm through Europe shattering racial stereotypes.
I try remember the good parts of Europe and realize that often it might be my Americanness and my position as a tourist that bothers some Europeans rather than my race. If you visit Rome, London, or Paris in July, when it seems like Americans have immigrated en masse, I can see why some locals have no patience with Americans. Apart from that, I try to think of how the number of people who have treated me kindly in any given place always outnumbers the few who haven't. If you have a Rick Steves' guidebook, he reminds travelers to have infinite optimism because any number of bad things (from racist comments to pickpocketing attempts) can ruin your trip if you allow them.
L
CA USA Thu 01/19/2006
My trip in Italy
I am a young black student and I took a 2 week trip to Italy last summer with a bunch of girls (the majority of whom were white and one was hispanic). I'll admit, different regions treated me differently. For example, I found that in the more northern regions, like in the cities of Milan, Venice, and Florence, the local people would sometimes not even acknowledge my presence. It got a bit annoying. And in restaraunts they would ALWAYS ask me my order last and always deliver my food last. That really made me mad. But then there were other experiences that made up for the lousy few. Like in Sorrento when my hotel room was next to the kitchen and the cutest woman kept smiling at me and calling me over to give me some nice authentic Italian food. And the people in Rome were extremely nice to me as well. While at the Sistine Chapel, one of the guards inside came right up to me and asked me out to dinner. The best part is that he allowed me to take pictures of the wonderful paintings even though it wasn't allowed!!
When in shops, I found out that the store owners are less of a hassle if you greet them in the native language first. But some people still act rude, while others go out of their way to be friendly and pleasant. It's kind of a toss up. But I think the best way to find out is to go to the places yourself.
Casey Blakely <email>
Champaign, IL USA Wed 01/18/2006
Don't worry about the stares!
Staring happens in every country! Don't worry...
Last year, I traveled to Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, with my sister-law (caucasian with blonde hair). We traveled to the countryside, and I can't count the amount of stares she got from the locals. If I could describe it, it's like as if a person has just seen bigfoot. People would intently stare at her... sometimes with their mouth wide open. A few times they would point. None of it was malicious, but just amazement.
Dan
Pittsburgh, PA USA Wed 01/18/2006
travels in Italy and England
I backpacked through Italy and London, England last summer with my friend. Both of us are black and we were mildly worried about travelling in Europe as black females, (it still didn't stop us from going of course!). Even though there were some moments of dodginess, I would absolutely go back to Italy in a heartbeat, and London is very multicultural so we felt right at home. Rome and Florence were great, we were surprised by how many different ethnicities were there. We did find the men very aggresive, and I wasn't sure at first if it was because we were black, but I think i realized that Italian men just love women and aren't afriad to show it! I think they thought they could get away with things because we were tourists looking for a good time, as opposed to black women that they thought were prostitutes. I think there are more issues with being a woman in Italy than being an ethnic minority, one night in Florence a bunch of girls from our hostel went for a walk and a guy just reached out and grabbed my friends breasts, it was pretty scary. Venice was a bit of a different experience, we stayed at a campsite right outside of the city (they have them all over Italy) and we found some of the staff to be unfriendly yet friendly to the other guests who happened to be white. We also found that we were stared at alot in Venice, sometimes by whole families, just staring, practically walking backwards looking at us, (haha, it's funnier now when i think about it!). It didn't really spoil our visit there, but it did taint it somewhat given our more friendly reception in Rome and Florence. However, I acknowledge that everyone's experience is different, depending on time and space and fate, two girls we met from our hostel in Rome (black Americans) stayed at a different hostel from us in Venice and thoroughly enjoyed the city, so who knows. Funnily enough, the most friendly place was Ischia, this gorgeous little island off the coast of Naples (everyone must go and stayed at the Baia di Sorgeto Residences, owned by the cutest old Italian guy ever, Peppino, tell him Alicia says hi). This island is relatively unknown compared to Capri, it's a spa destination with mostly German tourists, we found everyone on the island so friendly, gracious and I would go back in a heartbeat. The guys were still very much into us, but I actually found them to be less rude than in Rome. In fact, the rudest people there were the Germans, (not to denigrate Germans, it was just my observations in relation to the Italians), especially on the bus, knocking over old Italian ladies to get a seat and all that. So at the end of this diatribe I say to all the "minorities" out there, definitely don't let fear stop you from travelling, you're going to find dodgey people no matter where you go, just be safe and enjoy yourself...
Canada Tue 01/17/2006
Experience Living In Europe
I am an African-American\Asian female. I have lived in Germany since 2004. I get stares normally in small towns but in bigger cities, I "blend" in. Even when I go out with my husband, who is white, people do not take notice. It is just in the smaller towns. Germans have the tendancy to stare a lot. They even stare at their own people weirdly. I have had friends who were white that complained of being stared at.
I was afriad to go to Austria because what I heard and read about racism there. I didn't experience it at all. I was treated with total respect. I would definately visit Austria again.
My advice is to heed warnings of possible racism but do not let it deter you from visiting the country. Besides Germany, I have been to Austria, France, Benelux, and Turkey, and had a blast.
I am glad that there is an outlet like this. Thanks Rick Steves.
MNR <email>
Germany Tue 01/10/2006
Vancouver, B.C., Canada
I wish to commend Rick Steves for this excellent forum. The insights that we can see here are extremely difficult to locate elswhere.
We first began spending time in Canada after our first child was born (Af-Am & WASP married couple). Our experience in Vancouver was better than in any city other than San Francisco in terms of very, very low racism. There is definitely an easy internationalism that that is present in interactions with the locals. Perhaps it's because the city has an unusually large, foreign-born immigrant population. Whatever the reason, I recommend Vancouver as an excellent city to visit. It is a great place to live in if you want to see your children in uniform (private school, not military), appreciate access to the wilderness and outdoor sports, can tolerate being in a sidestream rather than in the center of activity, and can find a way to get into the insular business environment.
USA Sat 01/07/2006
Travel Experiences in General
Vienna, Austria
I was surprised at how helpful and kind people were in Vienna. I was sitting on a bench next to two guys who noticed that I was struggling with my all German map (I'm a Black American woman, and I only speak/read English and French). One of the guys noticed and offered to help (without trying to pick me up, just being friendly).
I went to a restaurant in a small suburb of Vienna and the menus were in German. One of the female servers sat with me and translated almost the entire menu. I loved Vienna, and I hope to visit it again, along with other parts of Austria.
Munich, Germany
I didn't like Munich at all. I thought the people were brusque and unapproachable. People were dismissive and basically ignored me when they realized I didn't speak German. I wouldn't say NOT to travel to Munich because I know several people who love Munich, but I didn't like it, and I probably won't go back.
Dusseldorf, Germany
I traveled to Dusseldorf for business in October of 2005. While I was exiting the plane, I was pulled aside for a security check along with an African man. No white people were pulled aside and there were no other people of color coming through the security at that time, so I know it was racial profiling. The situation made me angry and gave me another reason to steer clear of Germany.
Paris, Nice, and Bordeaux (France)
I decided to learn French after traveling in France in 2001. While I read it well, I speak it slowly. Luckily, people in France have been patient with me or they speak English. With some, if I didn't speak enough French (usually in social situations), they would shrug, grin, and give up. But no one has been rude to me during any of my trips to France.
Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Ko Samui (Thailand)
No one was rude to me in Thailand, but I will say they would defer to my white girlfriend. For instance, if someone was trying to sell something or wanted us to take their taxi/tuk-tuk, they approached her, not me. They would not even look in my direction. I kind of expected that kind of treatment (based on some research I'd done), so I wasn't surprised, but it was annoying.
Sardinia, Italy
I specifically went to this island because I'd read that no one spoke English, and I didn't want to have the worry of men bothering me while I was on this trip (separate story). Anyway, while the only thing said to me was, "Ciao, bella," I was stared at ALL THE TIME. Everyone stared at me except older women (who I think had enough sense to stare at me when I wasn't looking). An African guy I met told me that they stared because they knew I wasn't African, but weren't sure if I was Canadian or American.
No matter the reason, the constant staring made me self-conscious about being there. I think they were staring because I was a black woman alone. I was on Sardinia for two weeks and I didn't see anyone alone in social situations. Everyone was in couples or small groups. No one ever sat alone at dinner except me. So I'm sure I was weird to them.
Gray Contact Lenses
People in the US know that there are colored contact lenses, but in other countries they are not that common. I wear gray contact lenses, and I've had people in major European cities (Paris, London, Florence) ask where I've purchased them. Mine are prescription, so it's easy to answer at the eye doctor. Believe it or not, they look natural on me, so even in the US people have a hard time figuring out if my eyes are enhanced by lenses or not. I even had one guy in Paris ask if one of my parents were White - which I thought was odd because I'm a brown-skinned black woman, but I think he asked because of the contacts.
Cynthia <email>
Atlanta, GA USA Fri 01/06/2006
Response
LPJ,
You should be afraid of your own backyard. Considering how I was treated in your country, I will take the "Big City Crime" and "Odd Stare in Europe" any day.
Black Woman
NJ USA Thu 01/05/2006
Re: Racism In Europe?
I agree with Ali. I don't understand all the hypersensitive concern about "racism" here. I'm an African woman living in London who has travelled to the continent and the US many times. I am far more fearful of crime in big cities in the US than I am of the odd stare in Europe.
LPJ
London, UK Wed 01/04/2006